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Acheron popping out in a city I would have conquered the next turn

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Fall from Heaven' started by Hansebenger, Aug 31, 2009.

  1. Hansebenger

    Hansebenger KingKäs

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    It was a nice game with Kandros Fir, nice starting position with gold and flood plains. Copper popped upped some tiles west of my capital. The settler to go for copper was nearly finished when I noticed that near the copper was a Barbarian city. So I took my 3 warriors and went to this city. It had 2 warriors as defenders and was on a hill, so I had bad odds. I parked my 3 warriors in front of the Barbarian city and built another 2 warriors to help attacking. When the 2 warriors were on the way it happened: Acheron spawned. I was pissed off and closed the game..... I find it okay that Acheron spawns near my territory in 50% of my games (Pangea standard size map) because I`m too lazy to raze the Barbarian cities. But I find it very weird that he always spawns in the city I`m standing in front of. So my question is: Have the Barbs a routine to build Acheron when somebody camps in front of their city or happens this by accident ?
     
  2. FireBlaze

    FireBlaze Chieftain

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    That tends to happen a lot. Also, even with 5 warriors, you were likely to lose. It would have been based on luck, so you may very well have failed with that anyways. So at least you have 5 warriors that aren't dead :D
     
  3. Onionsoilder

    Onionsoilder Reaver

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    Actually, with five warriors the odds would have been in his favor, though you're right, he still could have lost.

    In general, you should have twice as many warriors as defenders + 1 extra per every three or so. This is assuming there is no extra defensse, such as hills, walls, or large culture boosts.
     
  4. Elyssaen

    Elyssaen Chieftain

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    I don't know if there's a script that makes him appear at the worst times, but something similar happened to me. I was playing the Luchuirp on an Erebus map and I was in the most annoying location ever. I had space for a good starting city, but I was closed in by mountains. The entire northwest was empty and free for me, but also had zero food (hills, mountains, ice). To the south was ocean, but closed in by mountains. That left me wanting to expand north and east.

    I made one city north, and one east. Looking further north, mountains closed me in a bit more and the remaining free territory was also barren. At this point in the game it was okay to be at three cities, but I was starting to panic. Looking east, there was room for one more city, then a one square chokepoint, and beyond that massive, fertile lands. Those lands were populated by the Amurites, who were expanding very nicely.

    A barbarian city pops up right in the way, trapping me in with three cities. Somehow, I manage to leave it alone along enough for it to produce Acheron. I really didn't think I left it long, but there you go.

    I figured that killing Acheron was absolutely my top priority – it was kill Acheron or lose the game, because with three cities (only two of them good) I wasn't going to be able to conquer the Amurites to take more land. I produced about six wood golems and sent them in with Bambur and Barnaxus. All the golems died and I was stupid enough to send Bambur in with a 20% win chance.

    And he won. : )

    Begging your pardon for the rant, but this game is awesome and times like that have to be talked about!
     
  5. Emptiness

    Emptiness []

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    The AI usually responds to hostile units near one of its cities by building additional defenders. It was probably building a worker originally, and switched to Acheron when the city was threatened. It would probably be better to back away and then return later in force.

    I hate it when Acheron interferes with my expansion plans, so I try to notice new Barbarian cities that appear around me and send forces to quickly raze them.

    -------------

    The city in question was on a hill.

    For a city on a hill with 2 warriors defending I'd send 8 warriors, because sometimes 6 won't be enough.

    -------------

    He's a Barbarian Hero, built like other units.
     
  6. Exsequien

    Exsequien Chieftain

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    I find griffons, that fly around with +80% strength (because the AI fed him with scouts) much more annoying than Acheron.
     
  7. Fafnir13

    Fafnir13 Chieftain

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    I once lost my capital due to a series of unfortunate events and unlucky rolls. Stupid lizard men... Frostling archers also went and parked their collective butts in the place, meaning I had to create a rather serious force of warriors to even have a chance.
    After many turns of building and plotting, my army was poised to take the city!
    Then Acheron popped. GG :sad:
     
  8. Hansebenger

    Hansebenger KingKäs

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    Thank you for this clear answer. I have to say I was Kandros Fir, so I had Aggressive Trait. Two of my Warriors had Combat II, one had Shock (Anti Melee). So my odds weren`t that bad, only around 20-30%. So I think 5 would have been enough.

    Is there anything further I have to know about Acheron being built, maybe he can be built not until turn 50 or so ?
     
  9. Elyssaen

    Elyssaen Chieftain

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    Quoting me out of context was rather silly, wasn't it?
     
  10. Exsequien

    Exsequien Chieftain

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    I think the AI reacts just like the player. If they see enemies at their border, they start to pump out their strongest units :D
     
  11. dyx

    dyx Chieftain

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    Acheron costs 25 (or 10?) hammers, which could be worth knowing too.
     
  12. arcticnightwolf

    arcticnightwolf Chieftain

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    well ... it's logic that Acheron will spawn in city you attack, because if there's enemy near, city will most likely build some defense unit, and since Acheron's cost is very low, chances that Acheron will spawn in that city is very high ((if he wasn't already built))
     
  13. xienwolf

    xienwolf Chieftain

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    Location! Location!
    Acheron's cost of 25 :hammers: is the only thing you need to remember really.

    If you see a Barbarian City, it is starting at size 1, so if it is on a Plains Hill, that is 2 :hammers:, and if there are only hills/forests nearby, assume 2 more (typically the extra worker will go for maximum food though, so as long as there is an empty grassland tile you might have them with no extra :hammers:, and few cities get on Plains/Hills, so they might only have the 1 :hammers:). So best case scenario is they have 1 :hammers: per turn, worst is they have 4 (or if near Ruins of Patria, you are just hosed). With 4 :hammers: per turn, they get Acheron in 7 turns. Thus until you see a message that Acheron has been built far away, you MUST destroy every nearby Barbarian city within 7 turns of it spawning. Unless you WANT Acheron near you so you can find him easily when ready for him, then you want to destroy all DISTANT Barbarian cities within 7 turns of creation. Note that for a 1 :hammers: per turn city you have 25 turns till Acheron pops out, but with 1 :hammers: that means excess food, so they'll get size 2 within those 25 turns and then potentially speed him up a bit. So always aim for 7 to be safe.
     
  14. Emptiness

    Emptiness []

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    Was it? I don't see how. You said that you didn't know whether Acheron is spawned via a script, and I informed you that he is not. Even if that information isn't helpful to you, perhaps it will help someone else.
     
  15. Wishful

    Wishful Chieftain

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    How do you guys deal with Acheron when he does spawn? I usually find that by the time I get over to his city, I'm looking at a fortified, str 19, combat V, drill IV monstrosity with a handful of other promotions. The AI seems to just feed him units. Then my units can't attack without spirit magic.

    I finally killed him in my last Hyborm game, but that was with a level 17 hero wielding all the weapons of the horsemen.
     
  16. Tasunke

    Tasunke Crazy Horse

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    Its possible to kill him using a mediocre unit, well if you have 5-10 such mediocre units, and if you have an insanely high number of catapults.
     
  17. Eshnunna

    Eshnunna Chieftain

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    A big fat bunch of Drilled units with courage.

    It gives the most epic flavor to any game tho, always worth remembering !
     
  18. Demus

    Demus Chieftain

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    by the way, to the OP: you could have prevented that city from appearing there in the first place by putting a warrior/scout on the copper (or a hill nearby) on fogbusting duty. Barbarians won't spawn in visible terrain, and cities sure as hell won't.
     
  19. Andostre

    Andostre Chieftain

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    I beat him by getting Knowledge of the Ether ASAP, building some Adepts and a Fire Node, and then waiting until they can get promoted into Mages. Fireballs only do half damage to Acheron, but he's stationary, and he had no choice but to sit there and take the weak fireballs I threw at him until they took him down as far as they could, and then I just threw an army of Fauns and Assassins at him, making sure I have a LOT of them due to the dragon fear, and then had a hero or promoted unit finish him off.

    And then, I just took the leftover army and started a war. The war was all Acheron's fault, I swear! :)
     
  20. dyx

    dyx Chieftain

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    You can also cast Valor on your army, then they're immune to fear.
     

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