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Acken's Minimalistic Balance for singleplayer (and AI improvements)

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Modpacks' started by Acken, Aug 3, 2015.

  1. TheGrumpyBuddha

    TheGrumpyBuddha Chieftain

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    Acken, have a better idea when v3 drops? I want to see what your mod does to my fave of all scenarios, Polynesia/Archipelago, but don't want to start it if there's a new version dropping imminently.
     
  2. Acken

    Acken Chieftain

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    Friday I'd say. Busy tomorrow and still have to test a couple last changes.
     
  3. Acken

    Acken Chieftain

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    That is already the case, the OP has a list of the latest changes, a link to the list of future changes in the experimental and finally a list of all current change. The problem is that the OP has a limited number of character so iirc I cant add another list under v3 future changes. But you should just click the link at the top toward the list of experimental changes or I can just copy it here:

    Spoiler :
    Buildings changes
    -The Nuclear plant no longer consumes Uranium but requires an Uranium ressource near the city instead.
    -The Research laboratory gives +2 science instead of +4
    -Forge is now available at IronWorking and cost 100 instead of 120
    -Caravansary now costs 60 hammer, boost external routes by 3 gold and is available at animal husbandry
    -Borobodur is now the Piety wonder
    -The great mosque is available to everyone but must be built in a holy city
    -Angkor Wat now also gives a free university and 3 culture
    -The east india company also gives a trade route slot
    -Police stations cost 200 production (down from 300)
    -National intelligence agency requires constabularies instead of police stations
    -RedFort cost is now 450 instead of 625
    -Windmill, Seaport, Hospital, Medical Lab, Stadium, Recycling Center costs are reduced by 20%
    -TerraCota Army now also gives 5 culture after archaeology
    -The Pentagon now costs 800 production
    -The Kremlin now gives a flat 20% production bonus in the city instead of a bonus to armor production.
    -Pyramids cost has been reduced to 160 from 185 to be consistent with the worker cost reduction

    Wonders GPP bonuses have been added or changed:
    -GreatLibrary +1 Writer GPP
    -Angkor Wat +2 Writer GPP
    -Forbidden Palace +1 Writer GPP
    -Globe Theater +2 Writer GPP
    -Neuschwanstein +1 Writer GPP
    -Mausoleum +1 Artist GPP
    -TerraCotta Army +1 Artist GPP
    -Alhambra +1 Artist GPP
    -Borobodur +1 Artist GPP
    -Hagia Sophia +1 Artist GPP
    -Parthenon +1 Artist GPP
    -Uffizi +1 Artist GPP
    -SistineChapel +1 Artist GPP
    -TajMahal +1 Artist GPP
    -Louvre +1 Artist GPP
    -CN Tower +2 Musician GPP
    -Broadway +1 Musician GPP
    -Sydney Opear +2 Musician GPP
    -NotreDame +1 Musician
    -Cristo Redemptor +1 Engineer GPP
    -Hanging Gardens +1 Engineer GPP
    -Kremlin +1 Engineer GPP
    -Prora +1 Engineer GPP
    -Statue of Liberty +1 Engineer GPP
    -Pisa +1 Engineer GPP
    -Great Firewall +2 Scientist GPP
    -Hubble +2 Scientist GPP

    Misc Balance
    -Casus Bellis now have a 50turns expiration
    -Cargos increase route yield by 50% rather than 100%
    -Caravans and Cargos are no longer considered military units (for production bonuses)
    -Prophets are now 4 movements (same as missionaries)
    -Musicians are now 6 movements, let music fly far and wide ! (helps the AI, the player has a bunch of exploits to go around that anyway)
    -Musicians can now enter enemy territory without declaring war (same reason, players could work arount it but not the AI !)
    -City lesser damage is now -30% instead of -20%
    -Notre Dame and forbidden palace now also have an artistic slot
    -Base trade route food value is 2 instead of 3
    -Sacred Sites gives 1 tourism 1 culture 1 gold instead of 2 tourism
    -Penalty attacking cities for mounted units is 20% instead of 33%
    -Captured cities have 75% health instead of 60%
    -Strength per pop is 30 instead of 40

    Techs
    -Removed Scientific Method as a prereq for Steam Power
    -Removed Economics as a prereq for Rifling
    -The prereqs for compass are now Philosophy and sailing
    -Infantry is now available at Combined Arms
    -Cannon has been swapped with arsenal
    -Pikeman is now available at Chivalry
    -The cost increase per era is now 5% instead of 4%

    Natural wonders
    -Baringer Crater is now 4science 4gold
    -Grand Mesa is now 4hammer 4gold
    -Krakatoa is now 6 science and should be on the coast more often
    -Gibraltar is now 3food 6gold
    -Old Faithful is now 3science 3happiness
    -Potossi is now 12 gold and is now as common as the others
    -Solomon Mines are now as common as the others

    Policy changes:
    Oligarchy now gives free defense buildings instead of stronger range attack
    Artistic Genius now gives +1 tourism to GW instead of +2
    Covert action now increases the chance of a coup by 15% and removes the 85% cap
    Economic Union now gives +3gold to all international trade routes
    Their Finest Hour now gives +15 strength and +50hp to all already existing cities
    Patriotic War gives +20% bonus instead of +15%
    Double Agents now gives +1 Level to all spies
    Party Leadership gives +2 to all yields instead of +1 and also include faith
    Resettlement New cities start with 5 pop and settlers production is increased by 100%
    Futurism now gives 400 tourism
    United Front no longer require to be at war with someone
    Third Alternative is 5food 5production instead of 5food 5science

    -Map Changes:
    You can now get salt starts again (that's okay in singleplayer)
    Coasts should feature more fishes (compensates weaker sea routes)
    The lands are slightly larger for the NQMap
    Integrated NQMap 9

    Bugs:
    -BandAid fix for a very rare crash when an AI great merchant escort loses its escort
    -Fixed the GS/GW bug giving too much science/culture
    -CS should no longer make settlers

    AI changes/improvements:
    -Less embark suicide
    -The AI will sometimes make scouts...
    -Due to an increase in AI performance I have removed some free techs of it.
    King/Emperor AI get Free Pottery Immortal/Deity/Demigod get free Mining, free Pottery
    -Improved AI formation logic
    -Changeed stupid AI logic for nukes (the AI basically was throwing a dice and mostly using them defensively)
    -Small bump in CS unit numbers
    -The AI should use artists and scientific specialists more (diminished the effect of city focus). The days where the AI preffer 2 food ocean tiles to scientists or the AI ignoring their guilds are over.
    As a side effect the player own automated specialists should follow the same rules for your puppets or if you're lazy
    -The AI should be less likely to build National wonders and 2 slot specialist buildings (guilds) in small cities
    -The AI should build more growth buildings in small cities
    -The AI should no longer sit too long (after 60 turns) on less than 4 cities (even on chieftain :p). I'm looking at you Gustavus.
    -The deal AI will no longer put things they value at 0 in it when asking for the AI to rebalance (horses and iron) ! Yeah !!!
    -Worked on technologies flavors (more logical values, for exemple Guilds or Refrigeration had no culture value !)
    -Worked on Units flavors
    -Worked on building flavors
    -Worked on AI strategy flavors
    -Made the weight discount for time bigger for techs. The AI should ignore cheap techs for a lot less longer (no more Great war infantry without schools or Flight without compass)
    -Better AI workers (stop the trade post spam stupid)
    -Better AI logic for great peoples. Completely rewrote the directive logic. No more 100 tourism musicians or early bulbs:
    Great works have now top priority for culture victories
    Less golden ages (no more for ideology pressure and war mobilization), more great works
    No concert before 500tpt
    Warmongers should still think about keeping a GE around for 10turns max if it wants a wonder
    GS should make more academies early on
    -The AI will no longer pay full price for luxuries if it swims in happiness (-25% per 10 happiness)
    -All difficulties AI start with 2 warrior minimum (still 3 on 7-8)
     
  4. TheGrumpyBuddha

    TheGrumpyBuddha Chieftain

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    Drop it already! I just had a wisdom tooth pulled and I'm going to be worthless for the rest of the day ;).
     
  5. Acken

    Acken Chieftain

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    NEW VERSION 3

    This version is probably one of the biggest update:
    -Ideology reworked
    -Wonders and buildings reworked
    -Some changes in technologies
    -Natural wonders rebalanced
    -NQMap v9 integrated
    -A LOT of AI changes. Better economy, better techer, better expander.

    Detailed list:
    Spoiler :
    Buildings changes
    -The Nuclear plant no longer consumes Uranium but requires an Uranium ressource near the city instead.
    -The Research laboratory gives +2 science instead of +4
    -Forge is now available at IronWorking and cost 100 instead of 120
    -Caravansary now costs 60 hammer, boost external routes by 3 gold and is available at animal husbandry
    -Borobodur is now the Piety wonder
    -The great mosque is available to everyone but must be built in a holy city
    -Angkor Wat now also gives a free university and 3 culture
    -The east india company also gives a trade route slot
    -Police stations cost 200 production (down from 300)
    -National intelligence agency requires constabularies instead of police stations
    -RedFort cost is now 450 instead of 625
    -Windmill, Seaport, Hospital, Medical Lab, Stadium, Recycling Center costs are reduced by 20%
    -TerraCota Army now also gives 5 culture after archaeology
    -The Pentagon now costs 800 production
    -The Kremlin now gives a flat 20% production bonus in the city instead of a bonus to armor production.
    -Pyramids cost has been reduced to 160 from 185 to be consistent with the worker cost reduction

    Wonders GPP bonuses have been added or changed:
    -GreatLibrary +1 Writer GPP
    -Angkor Wat +2 Writer GPP
    -Forbidden Palace +1 Writer GPP
    -Globe Theater +2 Writer GPP
    -Neuschwanstein +1 Writer GPP
    -Mausoleum +1 Artist GPP
    -TerraCotta Army +1 Artist GPP
    -Alhambra +1 Artist GPP
    -Borobodur +1 Artist GPP
    -Hagia Sophia +1 Artist GPP
    -Parthenon +1 Artist GPP
    -Uffizi +1 Artist GPP
    -SistineChapel +1 Artist GPP
    -TajMahal +1 Artist GPP
    -Louvre +1 Artist GPP
    -CN Tower +2 Musician GPP
    -Broadway +1 Musician GPP
    -Sydney Opear +2 Musician GPP
    -NotreDame +1 Musician
    -Cristo Redemptor +1 Engineer GPP
    -Hanging Gardens +1 Engineer GPP
    -Kremlin +1 Engineer GPP
    -Prora +1 Engineer GPP
    -Statue of Liberty +1 Engineer GPP
    -Pisa +1 Engineer GPP
    -Great Firewall +2 Scientist GPP
    -Hubble +2 Scientist GPP

    Misc Balance
    -Casus Bellis now have a 50turns expiration
    -Cargos increase route yield by 50% rather than 100%
    -Caravans and Cargos are no longer considered military units (for production bonuses)
    -Prophets are now 4 movements (same as missionaries)
    -Musicians are now 6 movements, let music fly far and wide ! (helps the AI, the player has a bunch of exploits to go around that anyway)
    -Musicians can now enter enemy territory without declaring war (same reason, players could work arount it but not the AI !)
    -City lesser damage is now -30% instead of -20%
    -Notre Dame and forbidden palace now also have an artistic slot
    -Base trade route food value is 2 instead of 3
    -Sacred Sites gives 1 tourism 1 culture 1 gold instead of 2 tourism
    -Penalty attacking cities for mounted units is 20% instead of 33%
    -Captured cities have 75% health instead of 60%
    -Strength per pop is 30 instead of 40

    Techs
    -Removed Scientific Method as a prereq for Steam Power
    -Removed Economics as a prereq for Rifling
    -The prereqs for compass are now Philosophy and sailing
    -Infantry is now available at Combined Arms
    -Cannon has been swapped with arsenal
    -Pikeman is now available at Chivalry
    -The cost increase per era is now 5% instead of 4%

    Natural wonders
    -Baringer Crater is now 4science 4gold
    -Grand Mesa is now 4hammer 4gold
    -Krakatoa is now 6 science and should be on the coast more often
    -Gibraltar is now 3food 6gold
    -Old Faithful is now 3science 3happiness
    -Potossi is now 12 gold and is now as common as the others
    -Solomon Mines are now as common as the others

    Policy changes:
    Oligarchy now gives free defense buildings instead of stronger range attack
    Artistic Genius now gives +1 tourism to GW instead of +2
    Covert action now increases the chance of a coup by 15% and removes the 85% cap
    Economic Union now gives +3gold to all international trade routes
    Their Finest Hour now gives +15 strength and +50hp to all already existing cities
    Patriotic War gives +20% bonus instead of +15%
    Double Agents now gives +1 Level to all spies
    Party Leadership gives +2 to all yields instead of +1 and also include faith
    Resettlement New cities start with 5 pop and settlers production is increased by 100%
    Futurism now gives 400 tourism
    United Front no longer require to be at war with someone
    Third Alternative is 5food 5production instead of 5food 5science

    -Map Changes:
    You can now get salt starts again (that's okay in singleplayer)
    Coasts should feature more fishes (compensates weaker sea routes)
    The lands are slightly larger for the NQMap
    Integrated NQMap 9

    Bugs:
    -BandAid fix for a very rare crash when an AI great merchant escort loses its escort
    -Fixed the GS/GW bug giving too much science/culture
    -CS should no longer make settlers

    AI changes/improvements:
    -Less embark suicide
    -The AI will sometimes make scouts...
    -Due to an increase in AI performance I have removed some free techs of it.
    King/Emperor AI get Free Pottery Immortal/Deity/Demigod get free Mining, free Pottery
    -Improved AI formation logic
    -Changeed stupid AI logic for nukes (the AI basically was throwing a dice and mostly using them defensively)
    -Small bump in CS unit numbers
    -The AI should use artists and scientific specialists more (diminished the effect of city focus). The days where the AI preffer 2 food ocean tiles to scientists or the AI ignoring their guilds are over.
    As a side effect the player own automated specialists should follow the same rules for your puppets or if you're lazy
    -The AI should be less likely to build National wonders and 2 slot specialist buildings (guilds) in small cities
    -The AI should build more growth buildings in small cities
    -The AI should no longer sit too long (after 60 turns) on less than 4 cities (even on chieftain :p). I'm looking at you Gustavus.
    -The deal AI will no longer put things they value at 0 in it when asking for the AI to rebalance (horses and iron) ! Yeah !!!
    -Worked on technologies flavors (more logical values, for exemple Guilds or Refrigeration had no culture value !)
    -Worked on Units flavors
    -Worked on building flavors
    -Worked on AI strategy flavors
    -Made the weight discount for time bigger for techs. The AI should ignore cheap techs for a lot less longer (no more Great war infantry without schools or Flight without compass)
    -Better AI workers (stop the trade post spam stupid)
    -Better AI logic for great peoples. Completely rewrote the directive logic. No more 100 tourism musicians or early bulbs:
    Great works have now top priority for culture victories
    Less golden ages (no more for ideology pressure and war mobilization), more great works
    No concert before 500tpt
    Warmongers should still think about keeping a GE around for 10turns max if it wants a wonder
    GS should make more academies early on
    -The AI will no longer pay full price for luxuries if it swims in happiness (-25% per 10 happiness)
    -All difficulties AI start with 2 warrior minimum (still 3 on 7-8)


    THIS VERSION WILL BREAK SAVEGAMES MADE BEFORE IT
    Workshop link.
    Dropbox Link

    Note that it's possible I make additional updates of this version soon but none should break save games.
     
  6. Phukit

    Phukit Chieftain

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    cant wait to test out v3 thank you sir.

    Though at this point im not sure how much sense it makes to have "minimalistic" in the title given all the work and changes you put in :rolleyes::rolleyes:
     
  7. Acken

    Acken Chieftain

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    The changes themselves are still minimalistic. There's just a lot of them, compared to an overhauld that would completely scrap entire systems :)
    If I changed every single metric by a little there would be thousands of lines of changes in the list but I would still call my mod minimalistic.

    Civ5 is just a big game requiring a lot of small changes.

    The number of things touched also reaches completion. The next thing are civilizations and after that the version will be only number tweakings and AI changes.
     
  8. Phukit

    Phukit Chieftain

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    hoping to see some tweaks for the UUs in the next version

    Some of the UI (im looking at you kasbah) could use some love too.
     
  9. silentscope

    silentscope Chieftain

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    i keep getting error 404 file cant be found
     
  10. Acken

    Acken Chieftain

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    Fixed
     
  11. Acken

    Acken Chieftain

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    That feeling when you start to record a lets play and then die in 70 turns on DemiGod after a double DoW ><
     
  12. Legen

    Legen Chieftain

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    So, just got a pikemen at turn 20. The spearmen from the Warrior Code honor policy found some ruins with advanced weapons and became a 16 :c5strength: unit that conquered Rome at turn 33.

    Quite fun, but something to be looked at.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. Acken

    Acken Chieftain

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    I'm not really viewing this as an issue. It requires a high amount of luck.

    Sure Rome is screwed but you have 6 guys remaining and it only gave you a size 1 city which will cost you a courthouse :)
     
  14. Ravellion

    Ravellion Chieftain

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    Besides, had Rome been built on a hill, I doubt it would have even worked. The pikeman has hardly any health left.
     
  15. yung.carl.jung

    yung.carl.jung Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious

    Joined:
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    Location:
    the most beautiful town in Germany
    Dear Acken,

    I have been playing Civilization with your mod pretty much nonstop. Ever since I installed it I wasn't able to go back. I have attempted roughly twenty to thirty games, most of them with different strategies in mind, and I have to say never have my Civilization games been as interesting. Thank you a lot.

    I will maybe do a detailled write up for one of my Culture or Science victories on DemiGod, but I played one game today, that I finished in one sitting and I absolutely have to share it, there is no other way.

    Since I was unable to win a Domination victory, even after multiple tries (DemiGod difficulty), I thought maybe V3 of the mod would help me a little.

    I played the following: DemiGod difficulty, Pangea, Standard Speed, Standard Size Map, 8 Opponents, 16 City States, Standard Ressources, No picked opponents, No Policy Saving etc.
    I started a game with Arabia, one of my more solid Civilzations. I had extremely weird land: Amazing ressources, lots of pastures, some horses, 7 unique luxuries close to me, which of course is even better for Arabia than for any other Civ, a river system that spanned four cities, plenty of growth tiles and mines. I went Tradition and settled all my cities very early, had a phenomenal early game but realized I was almost completely cut off from the rest of the map. There was only a very small pathway towards the main land. I met all the Civs at around Turn 60. Got National College up early, got Education at around Turn 100, which considering how much the tech curve is slowed down and how much ITRs were nerfed compared to normal Civ is pretty fast. I was essentially set up for a really quick Spaceship Victory, probably around Turn 250 or something among those lines, which would be roughly the equivalent of a Turn 200 or Turn 210 victory compared to vanilla.

    But the game wouldn't let me have it. There were three runaways: Egypt, Maya and Portugal. All three of them had tons of wonders, a lot of land and very good tech pace. I managed to keep up with them more or less: I snitched Leaning Tower of Pisa and Sistine Chapel. I figured getting Sistine would allow me to atleast not lose pre turn 250. Furthermore, I used Portugal as my attack dog against Egypt. Egypt was fighting a permanent war with China, then with China and Portugal, then with China and Portugal and Attila, then with China and Portugal and Attila and Pocatello. They did not even scratch him, nor did they slow him down. Oh boy.

    I realised I was pretty close to losing when I checked the tourism screen at around turn 120. Egypt was influential with 5 of 6 players, I was next. I was running Artist and Writers Guilds ever since Turn 100, had Amphis in every city even though I usually delay them, I had a very strong Religion and I was the one to found the Congress. I instantly went to Embargo Egypt, since I realized it was my only chance to win.

    I was teching incredibly fast, made a pretty big mistake though by going Fertilizer before Scientific Theory and delaying it a bit. I had so much money I immediately bought Public Schools in every city, but it wasn't even close to enough. Egypt was so unbeliavably strong that they actually managed to get influential with all but one (Pacal) at around Turn 150. I even got Ideology first, picked Order, since I knew Egypt was probably going Freedom, I rushed my Hermitage, easily surpassed 100 Culture per turn, but it was all in vain. I couldn't make Pacal attack and I couldn't make Egypt attack. The only bonus he had was +40% due to a trade route.

    I actually lost this game at Turn 191, I am not kidding. I'm ready to post a safe as proof.

    I think something needs to be done about this. Egypt did not even have very good turf, neither a good religion, not even marble or anything of that sort. I remember when IronfighterXXX made a thread about sub 200 Culture Victory on Deity and people were telling him it is impossible without Sacred Sites. This was on freaking DemiGod.

    Really though, hats off to you Acken. You didn't just make the AI a little smarter, you actually made them completely insane. I have never ever witnessed any AI, not even Deity, win before Turn 250. Not once in my life. I consider myself a decent player, I usually play on Deity, but I'm not ashamed to admit that I'll have to step down to Acken Immortal (Emperor). DemiGod is just too much for me. I still can't believe this really happened.

    There are a lot of balance issues I want to weigh in on, I have thought about this mod a lot, but I will reserve discussion of that for another post. The only thing I really think needs to be adressed instantly is the production & growth bonus that the AI gets, it is a little too much, since they now actually make good use of it. I really appreciate that you give everyone the opportunity to experience and weigh in on the balance decision process together with you, it really does feel like a community project. I will definitely continue to play this mod until I manage to beat it on Acken Deity. So far.
     
  16. Legen

    Legen Chieftain

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    The capital is more a proof of concept, the potential is in taking/pillaging vulnerable expansions, which don't have the palace boosting their early strength. I didn't need to build early settlers in the game because I took two cities with the pikemen, letting the city build the courthouse while my capital builds something else. The honor finisher made it painless. Also note that Rome had two nearby luxuries (that I didn't have), I didn't need the courthouse built soon.

    It's probably not a big deal because it's rare, just wasn't something I expected to happen so early. Guess I was also lucky that I didnt find the ruins with the archer instead.

    By the way, there's a typo in the Piety tree, saying that it unlocks the StoneHenge, instead of the Borobudur. :crazyeye: And the list of changes says "Borobodur" instead of "Borobudur".
     
  17. Acken

    Acken Chieftain

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    @Legen Typo corrected for piety opener thanks.

    Thank you for the kind words.

    I am curious to see that game to see if there is something abnormal going on. Would you be able to post a savegame around T120-150 ? There is a possibility the tourism vs culture balance is a little off.
     
  18. yung.carl.jung

    yung.carl.jung Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious

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    I uploaded four saves for you, T1, T191 and two inbetween, I don't remember the exact turn number. I hope they work for you. I don't have all the DCL (missing Harald iirc) but I don't think I'm using anything but EUI and AckenMod, I haven't delved into the mod sphere yet aside from these two.

    http://www69.zippyshare.com/v/11LPdbdI/file.html

    I really feel like early midgame (T70 - T110, before you get Hermitage and/or enough money to permanently ally one or two Cultural CS) is a phase where one generally lacks culture, filling the last policy of your starting tree and getting the three or four filler policies before Rationalism takes forever, even with your reduced culture cost. I always hated how Civ was essentially: "Pick a starting Policy, fill it until the end, pick a filler, go Rationalism" for almost every win condition, I definitely enjoy the modded version where you can easily get 3-4 policies in another tree before Rat is even available. It would be even better if one could generally almost fill out two trees, then decide between Rat or Ideology, I think you had something similiar in mind when you made Rat directly compete with Ideologies. The only way to get some balance into this is to make the player actually compete for wonders, slightly change tourism modifiers and add a little midgame culture.

    Great Works and Theming Bonuses, swapping Great Works, mix-matching and Archeology are such intricate mechanism and one of the most fun parts of the game to me, only topped by Domination. I think it's just stupid that you cannot ignore military when going for a Science Victory, you cannot ignore City States or the Congress even though you're not going for a Diplo Victory, you can never ever ignore Science, doesn't even matter what VC you are going for, but every VC aside from Culture can straight up ignore Tourism and Great Works. It's just sad, I think this is one of the better changes of Civ 5.

    I would love a way to make Amphitheaters and Opera Houses actually viable for any VC that isn't Culture. I don't think a Hammer reduction would be appropriate, maybe theming bonuses could give the player a larger chunk of culture and a smaller amount of rather early tourism. (A theming bonus for Amphi with +1 or +2 Culture for a Great Work of Writing from the same era the Amphi was built in, something in that regard.) Whenever I go for Domination or Science I end up bulbing almost all of my Writers and Artists and I don't even bother with the Musicians Guild, which is quite sad. Maybe Great Works need a little more culture so they can actually be useful, like an early Academy or a Holy Site. They feel pretty lackluster to me in that aspect. I usually only make Great Works when I know Ideology Pressure is going to be insane later on and that is a pretty fringe reason.

    Gardens are also a building that I think is really odd. Not that the bonus is bad, I actually build these really early so that they make up for the Hammer investment, but I think doing something like adding +1 Culture to the Gardens really wouldn't hurt anyone, helps defend against ridiculous mechanisms like the AI abusing Sacred Sites ICS or something among those lines and makes them a much better investment in general.

    If you need testers for anything just hit me up, I don't really play any other games anyway and I might as well do something productive while I'm at it.
     
  19. Acken

    Acken Chieftain

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    Well don't forget Amphis and GWorks are already twice as good as they used to be. An amphi with a GW is now 6 (2+4) culture while it used to be 1+2.

    I'll look at your save.

    Possible problem would be that the theme buff wasn't necessary or that specialists don't give enough culture. I'll have to make additional tests without the buff to themes (+1) and with a +1 culture for specialists.
     
  20. yung.carl.jung

    yung.carl.jung Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious

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    I see the problem we're facing here, certainly powercreeping, making things stronger and stronger won't really help. Maybe it would be possible to just ever slightly increase policy costs (I don't like this, I love filling out 3 Policy Trees + Ideology T3 to be honest) to make up for the Culture buff, just so that the AI can't get a sub T200 victory.

    Still amazed this was on DemiGod, I don't even want to know what Deity would have looked like. Taking the slowed down Science curve and everything into account, this is like a T170 or T180 Victory or something ridiculous like that. It is absolutely amazing to me how few changes in Building and Tech flavour, AI Victory Condition Logic and general Balance can have this much of an effect!

    I like your idea of buffing the Culture on the guilds directly, this would make the Musicians Guild a lot more viable for any VC but Culture.
     

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