Acken's Minimalistic Balance for singleplayer (and AI improvements)

This shouldn't happen unless your computer is really bad. And even then it shouldn't be much worse than with the base game. My AI changes aren't very intensive compared to what you can find with the full version of AuI or CBP.

Make sure you're not running another AI mod or some very slow LUA mods or something. I had a user complaining about this once and it was due to him running something else. Even at Deity where the AI spams units my computer only takes seconds to play AI turns with Quick/Quick enabled and it's a simple overclocked 2500K.

You can finally always post a save for me to see if I also get the same problems, I can't help more than that I'm afraid :(
 
Mostly it is the AI teching more quickly than I can keep up with till education. Therefore I prioritize tech even more than I usually do after that (Research agreements, scientists farming, ignoring ideologies till I have rationalism complete).

One more thing that I noticed (apart from the party leadership thing mentioned above) is that the AI now wants to trade for one of your luxuries yet offers nothing in return if its happiness is 40+ (but it is a trade request, not a plea for help). Would it be an idea to at least always get 2 gold for it as the AI might still get some use out of the resource (WLTKD, CS quests, GA advancement)?

It may be prudent to slightly lower the AIs happiness bonuses.

only getting 2gpt for a lux from a civ you have DoF with is pretty sad,lux 4 lux trades dont happen nearly as often either now.
 
One more thing that I noticed (apart from the party leadership thing mentioned above) is that the AI now wants to trade for one of your luxuries yet offers nothing in return if its happiness is 40+ (but it is a trade request, not a plea for help). Would it be an idea to at least always get 2 gold for it as the AI might still get some use out of the resource (WLTKD, CS quests, GA advancement)?

Yes it's possible. In the end the diminution for happiness may disapear and instead be based on AI gpt + Happiness. So that it refuses if it has happiness but low gpt but work as it used to if it struggles with happiness or has a lot of money.

Things are still on the design table for that part.
 
of perhaps lower the diminuation from 25% per 10 happiness to 15%.

at 40 happiness you could still get close to 3gpt per lux
 
I think scrap the idea of diminishing sale price entirely. There is much more to Luxes than just happiness. You could be giving an AI WLTKD or CS influence for a stupid cheap price (I assume AI gets those as well, but cmiiw). If it really has to be in, then further reduce the ridiculous bonus the AI get to a more human level. Also, Dutch would need a buff as well.
 
I like the changes you have brought to this, Acken!

But I am having minute long pauses on a Standard sized map with 6 civs. It started as slightly more length of turns for certain AIs, and then by the classical era became oe-minute pauses. Game didnt crash, but waiting a minute for each AI to do their turn is excruciating.

Quick Turns Mod will help you out.
 
Yes it's possible. In the end the diminution for happiness may disapear and instead be based on AI gpt + Happiness. So that it refuses if it has happiness but low gpt but work as it used to if it struggles with happiness or has a lot of money.

Things are still on the design table for that part.
Well, I suppose it is mostly a minor annoyance anyway. "Hey human, I want your incense. I am sure you'd agree absolutely nothing in return wold be fair, no?". It happened only 3 times per game, so it is no big deal. I'll see what you come up with.
 
The only time I had an AI taking minute-long turns was against America in the latest eras, because my spies would show him using his B17 non-stop on some civilization he's at war.

By the way, I don't suppose the AI had any change for air supremacy preference? America and Japan still seem to be the only civs to ever care about building a decent air force.

One bug: the Reformation social policy isn't giving gold, production nor golden age points when you buy a Great Prophet.
 
V3 Playthrough yesterday -

Very well balanced now, imo. The AI is teching at an amazing speed, and it is impossible to hoard late game wonders like you used to be able to. I had Harun go straight to internet, picking up CN Tower and SOH, and Harald go the south half of the tech tree and steal Red Fort/Himiji/etc while I pushed to Satellites.

The no lux/lux trades with friends is annoying, but I simply refuse to trade them most of the time if they won't give me parity. Generally within 20 turns they come around and offer a more reasonable deal. Since gold is a complete non issue (I was pulling close to 700gpt by turn 300), I can wait for them to stop being dinks about.

AI's still swallow city states very quickly, so it makes it important to actually back up those pledges of protection. I like this mechanic. Borderline CS's between my empire and the AI's actually require me to go down there and physically put peacekeeping troops in the way of them capturing it :) Good change. Like your CS allies? Better play the part of the world power you think you are. You probably can't win a diplo V anymore at any difficulty level, but that's a good thing as well, considering how much of a joke it was.

Combat is not trivial, and I lose units routinely now by underestimating the AI tactics/strength, but I assume that's due to the balance change on melee units and me still thinking "2 pikes vs my fortified pike? No sweat" when it's really not. Speaking of pikes, the early spearman --> pike ruin is completely insane now with pikes at Chivalry and me never once seeing the AI field a landshneckt. I still feel it's fairly balanced considering that Swordsmen are easy to field, but that's very iron dependent. If you get screwed on Iron, you are screwed on military for a long time. That's something that's not so cool. If you research Bronze working and don't see any or only see a 3 mine somewhere in your neck of the woods, you might as well plan on rushing Medieval and opening Commerce because you have literally no choice. Again, at least there is a solution, but it's somewhat inelegant and doesn't work for all strategies.

Sistine Chapel is very important, might be worth me changing my typical strategy of Education -> Printing Press to opening the Renaissance immediately to obtain Sistine. If you can get that, you can defend against 200+ tourism for a long time, it's pretty dicey if you can't. AI's are no slouch in culture now, it requires a solid bit of effort to start overcoming their massive empires with the increased culture yield from buildings. I haven't tried to win a CV yet, it's on my list of things to do.

Space race feels pretty slow now, Beakers (and by extension GS's) just don't come like they used to. At certain points it's impossible to stop from generating GE's late in the game now, so a very high faith output is important to make up the difference. Thankfully, very high faith doesn't seem to be a problem. I think the race to Satellites is slower, but after Satellites still feels about the same, which is probably a good thing. You really don't wanna be waiting around after Apollo is done with nothing to do anyway, so lengthening that portion of the game isn't ideal.

All in all, very pleased with the mod. I've also built Angor Wat every game, and I don't remember the last time I bothered with that. Good change making that thing useful again!
 
Hello Chum and thank you for the report and I'm glad you appreciate the mod so far.

Don't forget you also have Horsemen if you need a form of defense against swords if you don't have iron. They have a fairly high strength value as long as you don't send them against pikes. The importance of strategic ressources is to recreate a bit of that civ4 feel where it's one of those first things you check for in order to be able to defend yourself.

Generating GEs shouldn't be too much of a problem considering they now increase GS generation by 50 rather than 100.
 
V3 Playthrough yesterday -

Very well balanced now, imo. The AI is teching at an amazing speed, and it is impossible to hoard late game wonders like you used to be able to. I had Harun go straight to internet, picking up CN Tower and SOH, and Harald go the south half of the tech tree and steal Red Fort/Himiji/etc while I pushed to Satellites.

I can subscribe this. Yesterday I played a game as Babylon (DemiGod), had a close to perfect coastal start, T71 3-City National College, Finished Tradition shortly after, had Cargoes up soon, 30 surplus food in my capital and I still didn't manage to catch up to even the ICSing Civs until Research Labs, it's insane. I was last in tech even during industrial and that's with the best (or second best) science Civ in the entire game with a great start. Washington had 10+ cities, was constantly warring and still managed to be tech leader.

I would've gotten first pick Ideology on T170 (which I think is really, really early, that's like T150 compared to the standard game) and I still managed to get beat to it by two (!) AIs.

Sistine Chapel is very important, might be worth me changing my typical strategy of Education -> Printing Press to opening the Renaissance immediately to obtain Sistine. If you can get that, you can defend against 200+ tourism for a long time, it's pretty dicey if you can't. AI's are no slouch in culture now, it requires a solid bit of effort to start overcoming their massive empires with the increased culture yield from buildings. I haven't tried to win a CV yet, it's on my list of things to do.

I only managed to win a single CV out of ~10 tries, it was with Korea on continents. The opposing Poland player had about forty (!!!) cities and accumulated something among the lines of 50.000 culture.

I really think getting at least one +culture wonder and working guilds early + allying cultural CS is pretty much neccessary in order to not just lose to a wonderwhoring AI, especially if you settled four cities or less.




I've been trying to win a DomV ever since the mod came out, had about twenty tries now and every single one failed. I don't really feel like playing on Immortal, I'll just keep trying until I manage to crack DemiGod. Still have yet to do a DiploV, too, that should be pretty hard aswell considering how many CS the AI takes now, lategame there's usually less than half left.
 
I can subscribe this. Yesterday I played a game as Babylon (DemiGod), had a close to perfect coastal start, T71 3-City National College, Finished Tradition shortly after, had Cargoes up soon, 30 surplus food in my capital and I still didn't manage to catch up to even the ICSing Civs until Research Labs, it's insane. I was last in tech even during industrial and that's with the best (or second best) science Civ in the entire game with a great start. Washington had 10+ cities, was constantly warring and still managed to be tech leader.

I would've gotten first pick Ideology on T170 (which I think is really, really early, that's like T150 compared to the standard game) and I still managed to get beat to it by two (!) AIs.



I only managed to win a single CV out of ~10 tries, it was with Korea on continents. The opposing Poland player had about forty (!!!) cities and accumulated something among the lines of 50.000 culture.

I really think getting at least one +culture wonder and working guilds early + allying cultural CS is pretty much neccessary in order to not just lose to a wonderwhoring AI, especially if you settled four cities or less.




I've been trying to win a DomV ever since the mod came out, had about twenty tries now and every single one failed. I don't really feel like playing on Immortal, I'll just keep trying until I manage to crack DemiGod. Still have yet to do a DiploV, too, that should be pretty hard aswell considering how many CS the AI takes now, lategame there's usually less than half left.

I think DipV is basically impossible given how fast CS get swallowed up even on Emperor.

ScienceV seems a long shot,even with god tier civs and a great start.

Im playing a spain game (emperor) first 2 expos went to FoY and krakatoa,T30 i was already pushing out 30bpt ,3 city NC (tradition) T75 and ,T97 edu,T135 ST and i still cant get the tech lead.

DomV seems the only possible way to win with this mod,but i just cant seem to survive the multitude of double/tripl/quadruple DoWs and constant backstabs

Dont get me wrong i love the mod,but if i remember correctly Acken's goal was to make Dom a more important factor in all VCs.The end result so far however is that DomV has become the only VC that is realistically attainable.

instead of offering more avenues to achieve a variety of VCs and playstyles,DomV feels more like it is being forced on the player regardless of VC and playstyle,thus narrowing the options down to just one.
 
I think DipV is basically impossible given how fast CS get swallowed up even on Emperor.

ScienceV seems a long shot,even with god tier civs and a great start.

Im playing a spain game (emperor) first 2 expos went to FoY and krakatoa,T30 i was already pushing out 30bpt ,3 city NC (tradition) T75 and ,T97 edu,T135 ST and i still cant get the tech lead.

DomV seems the only possible way to win with this mod,but i just cant seem to survive the multitude of double/tripl/quadruple DoWs and constant backstabs

Dont get me wrong i love the mod,but if i remember correctly Acken's goal was to make Dom a more important factor in all VCs.The end result so far however is that DomV has become the only VC that is realistically attainable.

instead of offering more avenues to achieve a variety of VCs and playstyles,DomV feels more like it is being forced on the player regardless of VC and playstyle,thus narrowing the options down to just one.

Dom isn't the only way to win, science is still entirely possible. You just don't catch up on tech until Modern now, instead of Ren, which actually makes sense, because you can't open Rationalism until Industrial, and it's best 2 policies have been downscaled quite a bit and pushed further back.

Dom is an important factor in victories -- if you wait too long to deal with powerful civs, you won't be able to win. This makes those 2 on 1 war offers you get the entire game long much more important and it's important to conduct early wars and take strategic cities or stop runaway AI's from getting too big too fast.

Like I said above - if you think you're a world power and you deserve to win, you need to act like it now. You can't just turtle on 4 cities and hope everything is going to be okay. It's not, and that's the exciting part of this mod.
 
Dom isn't the only way to win, science is still entirely possible. You just don't catch up on tech until Modern now, instead of Ren, which actually makes sense, because you can't open Rationalism until Industrial, and it's best 2 policies have been downscaled quite a bit and pushed further back.

Dom is an important factor in victories -- if you wait too long to deal with powerful civs, you won't be able to win. This makes those 2 on 1 war offers you get the entire game long much more important and it's important to conduct early wars and take strategic cities or stop runaway AI's from getting too big too fast.

Like I said above - if you think you're a world power and you deserve to win, you need to act like it now. You can't just turtle on 4 cities and hope everything is going to be okay. It's not, and that's the exciting part of this mod.

science isnt really an option when the AI is posting sub 200 CVs.

Basically you either commit to a domV or you run a huge risk in losing the game.
 
Sub 200CV can't be common. I have seen it once in that thread and maybe once in simulations.

Immortal AI usually wins in 280 turns and DemiGod closer to 250-260. The most common way the AI wins is usually by a science victory after having conquered half (or more) of the world.

If there are really problems with the other victories I will work on them. I have been a bit busy with Rising Tide lately but will soon resume my personal tests (since I won't work on it for a little bit) and see how it is. Will probably make a let's play too.

DemiGod sounds like a tough nut to crack for Yung so that's good :p
 
science isnt really an option when the AI is posting sub 200 CVs.

Basically you either commit to a domV or you run a huge risk in losing the game.

Don't let the AI win a CV?

You are in complete control over whether or not the AI is influential over you. If you are letting them win a CV, you are failing.
 
Don't let the AI win a CV?

You are in complete control over whether or not the AI is influential over you. If you are letting them win a CV, you are failing.

You have control over what your close neighbours are doing to a degree but you have no control over what snowballing civs on the other side of the map are doing.

Again,I love the mod its a great piece of work.

But let's be honest....if you arent commiting to a full DomV or at the very least 90% domV/ScienceV you arent going to win.This is a DomV centric mod plain and simple.

I dont think that is a bad thing but it is what it is.
 
On the new Deity, I agree, I can't see anyone win on anything but DomV there. But on DemiGod, there is much more leeway. Just get rid of the mentality "building units=DomV" and other "extreme efficiencies" that most fast players have when ending a Sub T250 SV with just a couple of archers from the Stone Age. And actually work those guilds early and often, build ampitheaters, build the Hermitage. I actually survived a Pagoda+Mosque Sacred Sites Theodora, last man standing culturally by late Renaissance, but I won my own CV in the end (it involved crippling Theodora).
 
Sub 200CV can't be common. I have seen it once in that thread and maybe once in simulations.

Immortal AI usually wins in 280 turns and DemiGod closer to 250-260. The most common way the AI wins is usually by a science victory after having conquered half (or more) of the world.

If there are really problems with the other victories I will work on them. I have been a bit busy with Rising Tide lately but will soon resume my personal tests (since I won't work on it for a little bit) and see how it is. Will probably make a let's play too.

DemiGod sounds like a tough nut to crack for Yung so that's good :p

I suspect the sub 200CV happens if a CV-focused AI gets Sistine Chapel, goes for Aesthetics and start building Hotels/Airports. Having +58% :c5culture: in your cities (the AI seems to build Wonders in every city to maximize the +33% :c5culture: Flourishing of the Arts) is huge enough for an AI to double even high-culture output civs/builds that the player may choose. This is especially true if that AI happens to be the only contender for a CV in the map, since it means many CV-oriented wonders are mostly uncontested.

If correct, then the problem isn't in the victory conditions themselves, but in how these two early culture bonuses snowball quickly for the AI.
 
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