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ACLU sues the NSA

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by eyrei, Jan 17, 2006.

  1. Tank_Guy#3

    Tank_Guy#3 Lion of Lehistan

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    Doesn't the ACLU know that they or their information could suddenly disappear if they go through with this?

    I think having my phone tapped is not too big a price to pay for keeping terrorists from bombing the hell out of American cities. Besides, I rarely use the phone anyway, I have no need, and when I do use it, I'm not planning to blow something up or assassinate a local leader (and who in their right mind would talk about that on the phone?). I'm not a subversive communist like some (I'm not naming anyone, though I could if it would make you feel better).
     
  2. Kayak

    Kayak Partisan

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    Given the size of the ACLU, I would be impressed if the goverment could do this.

    As I asked CartesianFart, at what point is the price too big for you? When would it go too far?
     
  3. skadistic

    skadistic Caomhanach

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    The ACLU law suits bring no proof to the table that the people they are representing have been targets of "illegal" wire taps. Its a fishing expadition. They are going to argue that the NSA might have, possibly spied on people inside the US that the ACLU represents. If the ACLU had a proveable defendant to centre the case on it might have a chance. As it is the ACLU doesn't know what happened to whom and wants the list wich is classafied you know like top secerate. What will the ACLU do with this infomation beside make it public and undermine the war on our enamies. Before you praise the ACLU think about what its goals are. The ACLU is more of a political tool then a rights organisation. They are anti-military, anti-boy scouts, anti-christian, anti-Bush and pro-child rape by thier repeted pro-bono work for NAMBLA ( North American Man Boy Love Association ).The ACLU will do damage to this nation if allowed. Let them go about this the right way by fileing for a freedom of infomation request instead of throwing up law suits riddled with maybes, possibles, might haves, and could haves.
     
  4. IglooDude

    IglooDude Enforcing Rule 34 Retired Moderator

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    Isn't that the point? The gov't refuses to say who got wiretapped?

    Are you kidding me? In response to an FOIA request, the feds refuse to even cite the exact number of people that it had wiretapped, much less names of individuals.
     
  5. Gibsie

    Gibsie Warlord

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    The ACLU are concered with wiretaps that were carried out against US citizens, and, as we all know the 9/11 terrorists were not US citizens (But mostly Saudis. Or Iraqis sent by Saddam himself if you prefer to watch FOX News, of course). Thus they can't be undermining the war against the enemies of the free world. They can, however, expose idiocy, but if exposing Bush and co's idiocy really helps the baddies, then they would have won several times over by now.
     
  6. Renata

    Renata homicidal jungle cat GOTM Staff

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    If this is all so innocent, why have Bush & Co. lied at every single step?

    "No, there are no wiretaps."

    "Sorry, yes, there were wiretaps, but we always get warrants."

    "Well, yeah, a few times we didn't get warrants, but it was only in limited cases and it was very effective in preventing terrorism."

    Now it's known that hundreds of thousands of people were listened in on with little or no positive effect.

    Given that, why on earth does anyone believe them when they say they're only using these powers to prevent foreign terrorism?
     
  7. Irish Caesar

    Irish Caesar Yellow Jacket

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    And in addition to everything that's been said, isn't this the CIA's department anyway?

    Oh, and thanks, eyrei.
     
  8. Rad Chris

    Rad Chris Chieftain

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    Wait hang on a second. Your not one of those people who actually thinks that invading Iraq and the War of Terror are the same thing are you? To much FoxNews for you. Of course now it is because you gave the entire Middle East a reason to hate you. But did occupation have anything to do with terrorism before you invaded? A simple, undeniable 'No'. Ill put this bit in bold in the hopes it sticks in your mind

    Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11

    Obviously you have a poor view of the ACLU. But by your own admission the Bush administration are a bunch of liars. So if given a choice between trusting someone with all the power, money and the will to screw you over and a non government group with much less power over anything, let alone over you personally. You choose the corrupt liars. OK.

    Horay for calling people childish for not agreeing with you! Curiously people on the other side of the argument think you are the childish one.

    I'm wondering though, just whos side do you think the ACLU are on? Socialists? Hippies? The Commies? Satan? Any rational person can see that they do represent a large portion of people, just not you. That doesn't mean they are evil, it just means you dont understand what they are saying.

    Apart from that, what you said in your 'analogy' is a classic example of being suckered in by a false dichotomy. Example: "Your with us or the terrorists" "love it or leave it". I have news for you, that doesn't make sense. Its perfectly possible to be against Bush AND terrorists. Just as its possible to retain your freedom and fight terrorism.
     
  9. Irish Caesar

    Irish Caesar Yellow Jacket

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    The ACLU has 400,000 members.

    Just for comparison, the NRA has 4.3 million.

    The population of the United States is 297.9 million.
     
  10. Taliesin

    Taliesin Puttin' on the Ritz

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    1) Isn't the NSA a civilian body?
    2) Even if it is a military body, isn't it bound by the entire law of the land unless martial law is declared?
    3) This is a government that sends people to torture camps in north Africa and the Middle East without trial. The argument that "the innocent have nothing to hide" is irrelevant, for the simple reason that, since the American people don't oversee who is "rendered", it is vital that the government be denied, wherever possible, the tools it uses to "render" people, particularly the illegal ones. This includes unlimited secret spying on citizens.
     
  11. eyrei

    eyrei Deity Retired Moderator

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    I'd imagine the primary reason the ACLU filed the lawsuit was to make way for subpoenas, which is the only way the Bush administration will part with information. What was it Pravin Lal said about people who would deny you information?;)
     
  12. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    Couldn't an individual file a FOIA and ask to see if he was subject to a wiretap, or would that not work?
     
  13. The Yankee

    The Yankee The New Yawker Retired Moderator

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    And those cases of nation-building were half a century ago. There are too many differences between then and now.

    It's a little hard to build a nation while a war is going on. It has to be one or the other. I thought we swore off nation-building five years ago?

    The ACLU can be overzealous in some cases and many people here would not hesitate to call that out.

    However, why should liberty take the place of security?

    Finally, it sure doesn't feel like there's a war going on. What, with top leaders having to tell us that everything was fine, act normally, and remember to spend your credit limit times three at stores. No sacrifices for the normal population, those that don't have any relatives as soldiers, are being asked. The costs for it all are being kicked down the road for about a generation or two.
     
  14. The Yankee

    The Yankee The New Yawker Retired Moderator

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    I thought tapping phones of people like yourself was something Communist governments would do.
     
  15. The Yankee

    The Yankee The New Yawker Retired Moderator

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    Not if you don't know what you're looking for. Besides, some FOIA requests have been stalled repeatedly. Additionally, since the FISA court was bypassed, there would be no court records for such a thing to request a FOIA.
     
  16. ironduck

    ironduck Deity

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    It's interesting to note that the Americans that do not see a problem with wide-scale wiretapping without court orders are usually strong critics of communist governments. One of the hallmarks of the communist governments that have existed and still exist today is total monitoring of its civilian population. For security reasons, of course.

    Former East Germany may be a place to look for inspiration, it's estimated that by 1989 there were 300,000 Stasi informants, in other words 2% of the population actively informed on their neighbours to the government.
     
  17. The Yankee

    The Yankee The New Yawker Retired Moderator

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    But they didn't have a vast army of super legal experts.

    I guess the difference would be those that are so willing to have every right invaded, on themselves, as well as everyone else in the country, will say it's because of an outside threat, not the everliving threat of non-Communists in the country.
     
  18. CartesianFart

    CartesianFart Deity

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    Indeed i must have:)
    I guess what war is [since war is not my profession,so i can only speculate;) ]a means to settle differences,a conflict.

    War is the solution of who is right and who is wrong.:king:
     
  19. Taliesin

    Taliesin Puttin' on the Ritz

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    You do realise that that concept annihilates the concepts of right and wrong, don't you?
     
  20. CartesianFart

    CartesianFart Deity

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    Do you think any rational head of state of today is not a moral relativist?If you beg to differ,then dont quit your day job to be a president someday;)
     

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