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ACLU sues the NSA

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by eyrei, Jan 17, 2006.

  1. eyrei

    eyrei Deity Retired Moderator

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    That hardly makes it a good thing.

    And if we stop calling them to account when they cross the line things will only get worse. It is our responsibility as citizens in a democracy to keep an eye on our leaders. If we fail to do that we end up with massive corruption and authoritarian governance.
     
  2. nihilistic

    nihilistic Intergalatic Delivery Boy

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    You realize that second statement of yours basically meant "might makes right"?

    Coupled with that first statement, would it be fair to describe your position to be a "armchair facist" position?
     
  3. The Yankee

    The Yankee The New Yawker Retired Moderator

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    Somehow I think you'd be thinking differently if you were on the losing side.

    Do not sacrifice my rights in the process. What you want to leave open on yourself is your business.
     
  4. IglooDude

    IglooDude Enforcing Rule 34 Retired Moderator

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    Nope. National Security, they can neither confirm nor deny...

    There are people that get National Security Letters requiring them to assist in handing over evidence, and they are legally gagged from even talking to their lawyer about it, what makes you think the Feds would actually answer someone "Yeah, we've been listening to your conversations to Fred, Barney, and Youssef."
     
  5. CartesianFart

    CartesianFart Deity

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    It is also important and a responsibility of citizens in a democratic society to keep an eye on enemies of a democratic way of life.Who job is that?The president.In USA the president is elected by the 'majority' of the votes.That is what is called a contract[which only last 4 years and a limit of 2 terms].If you dont like the President,then talk to your representative and tell them that.

    If you dont get your way,tough.Then your just gonna be a another worker bee in the history of man to complain about how their society is oppressive in the afterlife.Trust me,there is plenty of grievances of countless souls petitioning of how they were betrayed by their elders of lying.Dont you ever wonder that this will always be like this.Be happy in the world that you live in now and stop thinking opinion which is more like just uncompromising egoism:king: that have no weight in power to make changes in society.

    ACLU's is a scam of selling liberty like selling snake oil:)
     
  6. CartesianFart

    CartesianFart Deity

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    I guess i am quite influenced by Thomas Hobbes than John Locke.

    I would love to let you know that i am greatfully happy that you said that.I find myself being called a armchair fascist a great honor since it revealed that you have no sense of what i am writing about.
     
  7. Kayak

    Kayak Partisan

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    But we do not give our President carte blanche to disobey the law. The President's job is also that of chief law enforcement officer. I n addition, the President has to obey the strictures of the Constitution as well. Those strictures are intrepreted by the SCOTUS, not the President. The Constitution protects the minority as well as the majority.

    Oh, and the President does not have to have been elected by the majority.
     
  8. CartesianFart

    CartesianFart Deity

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    Why abstract the fact that i am fortunately on the winning side.This is no relevance and practical argument.
    Tell that to your senators,representatives and the president.Not me,unless you wanna call me Mr.President CartesianFart:rolleyes:
     
  9. CartesianFart

    CartesianFart Deity

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    Last time i checked,the president is still getting away from this so called disobeying the law.Dont you find it funny that the ACLU's is still not effective in removing the president from power?It cant be done.

    and yes i know that it doesnt have to be elected by the majority.like the al gore joke:)
     
  10. Kayak

    Kayak Partisan

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    It is not the ACLUs job or mission to remove the President from power. That is the job of the Senate. The activities are still going on because details of the operation have not been released and the President publicaly maintains that his actions are justified. That is up to the SCOTUS to decide if/when it is referred to them. Congressional investigations are beginning next month.

    The ACLU tries to investigate or litigate any event where it feels civil liberties might be compromised. They are not always correct, nor do they always win. But IMO erring on the side of caution and asking for a legal ruling on an issue is not a bad thing.

    Actually I was thinking of Clinton;)
     
  11. CartesianFart

    CartesianFart Deity

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    The ACLU,the democrats,the congress,or the boogey man will not succeed in removing this administration.It can't be done and will remain as a success story of good politics that any administration have ever done.
     
  12. Kayak

    Kayak Partisan

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    This may be true. The Republicans certainly have too much to loose to allow it except in the most extream circumstances. I they loose control of the Senate then we might get some real investigations.

    It can be done, you know that. And I think we will need a stakeholder on that latter part;)
     
  13. CartesianFart

    CartesianFart Deity

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    Read this dude,Bush is reforming the Republicans and quite possible with the democrats changing by the reaction of the stress on not having power in the Senate.Any administration that 'was' affiliated to a particular party doesnt mean that the adminstration of any given day is loyal to it.Its like exclaiming to be a member of a party till the time when the opportunity is there to turn your back into it by position of power.:)
     
  14. Kayak

    Kayak Partisan

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    What is Bush reforming the Republicans into, I wonder? I remember how Gingrich was a reformer too, and Delay as well.:rolleyes:

    Are you saying that a political party does not protect its own? That as soon as the President is elected he leaves his old affiliations aside?:eek:
     
  15. CartesianFart

    CartesianFart Deity

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    During Clinton years with Gingrich,yes.Delay in Bush years,probably.But it is the president that set the tone in politcal activities and games in the Senate.
    Not totally,but the president do have much more leverage to make his own decision with his advisors than going too much with his allies[Republicans].
     
  16. eyrei

    eyrei Deity Retired Moderator

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    What if the president is an enemy of democracy? And how do you defend democracy by intruding on peoples' privacy and expanding the powers of the government to avoid being called to account?

    So we should all just shut up and assume that our current leaders are the best we can get? How then are we supposed to decide who to vote for? Are we supposed to be mindless automatons who simply do as we are told? What about freedom and liberty, or are those just pointless ideals as well? Maybe you should go live in a fascist country where you could be comfortable...


    My god, what does that make our political parties?

    And who are you to say that things never can get better? You who accuse those who have opinions contrary to yours of being egoists...:rolleyes:
     
  17. IglooDude

    IglooDude Enforcing Rule 34 Retired Moderator

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    And what benefit does the ACLU reap in the sale? If one thinks pro-WoT politicians are selling security like snake oil, one knows the price is being paid in votes.
     
  18. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    This means that you cannot know that you are wrong until you are beaten. You're only correct until you are beaten, which means that (since being beaten is inevitable) you were wrong from the beginning. Every single time.

    It's an illogical moral stance.
     
  19. nihilistic

    nihilistic Intergalatic Delivery Boy

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    nvm messed up usernames too
     
  20. Stylesjl

    Stylesjl SOS Brigade Member

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    Edit: Never mind i screwed up usernames here
     

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