Addition to Pacifism

Go Boks

Prince
Joined
Mar 5, 2007
Messages
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I was happy to see Pacifism get a tweak in one of the more recent patches, as I found it completely worthless with my particular set of playing styles.

Anyway, I was wondering if you could add a new feature to it. If you adopt Pacifism, other civs can't ask you to join their wars. I would find this a huge bonus to maintaining good relations with other civs, as a pacifist, instead of racking up huge "you didn't help us" penalties with everybody. I recently played a game where I was getting asked to join a war almost every turn.
 
It's annoying, but it's there to force you to pick a side.
Just declare and never go there, and you should be all right. You'll get bonuses with one side and maluses with the other, and you (and them) will know better where you're standing.

The AI might be doing this a bit much, though. I hope this is reduced in the AI work ahead and Pacifism is taken into account to lower the probability of people wanting to drag you into a war.
 
I was happy to see Pacifism get a tweak in one of the more recent patches, as I found it completely worthless with my particular set of playing styles.

Anyway, I was wondering if you could add a new feature to it. If you adopt Pacifism, other civs can't ask you to join their wars. I would find this a huge bonus to maintaining good relations with other civs, as a pacifist, instead of racking up huge "you didn't help us" penalties with everybody. I recently played a game where I was getting asked to join a war almost every turn.

I agree with you, it would be a really good idea! :)
 
If that aspect of Civ4 diplomacy system imitated Real Life, Switzerland would be the most hated country in the world.
 
Exactly. I feel if you are going to be a Pacifist civ, other civs shouldn't expect you to join them in a war. Maybe they can still ask, but you get no mood penalty if you decline as a Pacifist.
 
if u wanna keep using pacifism than DON"T go to war and suffer the penalties with other civs.

OR

go to war and make other civs happy. if u can and want to stay on pacifism, than stay on it. if not, than simply change OFF of pacifism.

no need to change game mechanics when all it takes is for U to change to the situation and/or want to RP (role play).
 
If that aspect of Civ4 diplomacy system imitated Real Life, Switzerland would be the most hated country in the world.

I guess Switzerland would be quite hated in a dark fantasy world split into a battle between Good and Evil. "Are you with us or are you with them??".
Not as hated as enemies, but still disliked. You'd need some good arguments (read: bonuses to compensate) to not

about Switzerland
And even in real life it's been a real acrobat's feat for Switzerland to be neutral in the middle of wars.
Wikipedia said:
Switzerland's trade was blockaded by both the Allies and by the Axis. Economic cooperation and extension of credit to the Third Reich varied according to the perceived likelihood of invasion, and the availability of other trading partners.
Reading through Switzerland's history on wikipedia, you can also see that there have been quite a few wars and neutrality is not really that old...
Wikipedia said:
In 1815 the Congress of Vienna fully re-established Swiss independence and the European powers agreed to permanently recognise Swiss neutrality.
Also I'm no expert, but I know that there were several Swiss Mercenary corps around Europe at times (the Pope's being the last remaining) which both made Switzerland more likeable and less feeble-looking to the countries around it. Call that their power curve :p

back to the game
Still, I agree that pacifism should make AIs less likely to want to drag you in a war, but not forbidden from it. I think this should be included in the AI programming.
 
The AI should take a hint the first time. Why does it ask million times about the same war? I already told them... Or at least if I did not agree the first time, they could offer me something for declaring a war.

"If you help us pound those scum into dust, we'll supply you with iron for the next X turns."

Leaving your 'buddy' hanging means the deal is off. It is still exploitable against the AI as iron weapons last until the unit dies or gets hit by rust or some random event.

And I'd love to get an option to ignore them completely.

"Your majesty, the Hippus ambassador requests your audience."
"I am not interested in meeting him."

No diplomacy screen, but a temporary penalty to the relations.

Better yet, I'd love to send his head back to Tasunke on a platter but I guess that will be pushing it.

Finally back on topic, pacifism is nice as is, the problem lies elsewhere.
 
This is a fantastic idea for an addition to Pacifism. I also want to be able to ignore AI and red line things that I am not willing to trade. I never want livestock for my excess mana.
 
This is a fantastic idea for an addition to Pacifism. I also want to be able to ignore AI and red line things that I am not willing to trade. I never want livestock for my excess mana.

I never want anything for my excess mana, except, perhaps, a type of mana I don't already have.Or, even a type of mana I already have :lol: The mana as a resource has to be reevaluated for the AI.

I also agree with the request to assist in war. When I ask from an AI to declare war on someone, I give something to them to do it. Why should they expect me to do it for free?
 
I think the diplo penalties should stay. After all, if I'm getting invaded or dogpiling an enemy, it isn't exactly endearing when my neighbor is saying "Oh, gee hbar, I'd love to help turn the tide of that war you're in, but you know I'm a pacifist, so I really can't. Let me know how that Tasunke horseman rush turns out though, kay?"
 
You're not a pacifist if you are willing to go to war for any reason.

Furthermore, even if you aren't a pacifist, your neighbour should not be able to ask, dislike you for refusing, then ask again in a few turns and dislike you even more.

Either he should not be able to ask more than once for the same war, or asking again erases the old penalty.
 
The AI should take a hint the first time. Why does it ask million times about the same war? I already told them...
Yes. Kael & Co, we realize this is not your fault and all, but please fix this. Pretty please?
 
Maybe the Civic should be renamed.
Instead of Pacifism, which is not existent in a world like Erebus,
it would make sense to name it "Philosophy" which would go along with the GPP-Boni and the -20% military production (Philosophical people really don't like to get up early and run around in the woods).
But nevertheless an "ignore that AI" option would be nice. Also the thing with red lines sounds fun.
 
Either he should not be able to ask more than once for the same war, or asking again erases the old penalty.

Ummm.... doesn't it?

In my current game the Sheaim and Khazad have been begging back and forth for 100 turns..... easily each has asked me to fight the other at least 5 times.....

Yet I still have a -1 "You refused to help us during war time" rating with each..... not a -5 or -6

I'm going on my current game only.... so my empirical data is a little light :crazyeye:
 
Maybe it does. I can't keep track in some of my games because huge battle royales usually break out and I have -5 to -6 penalties with everyone if I try to stay out of it.
 
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