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Adventurer Kings - thoughts?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Fall from Heaven' started by Marnok, Apr 20, 2009.

  1. Marnok

    Marnok Marnok

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    (disclaimer : I'm about 105% certain someone will just point me to a thread where this has already been discussed. )


    I was thinking again about "Adventurer Kings". Actual unit representing the leader of a civ.

    Reasons:

    1. Adventurer Kings option; either a game-settings option (every civ starts with their leader manifested) or as an option in-game to choose to manifest. Adventurer kings would be unique special units with various abilities; choosing to manifest may carry risks, but may well be worth it. Of course loss of the unit would cause problems for the civ (loss of traits, maybe even instant game loss)

    2. Sir Not-appearing-in-this-mod option; if a civ is not represented in a game at startup, I had an idea to use their unique heroes etc. as "barbarian" threats in game. Perhaps even a barb city with thier unique buildings, untis and so on. Also I thought maybe a set of special events which occur when a civ is not in the game (linked to the idea for "ghost" civs, a civ still making its presence felt after its defeat). Falamar might appear in a barb city and they start producing pirate ships. That sort of thing.

    Has anything like this been attempted? And as a thread-bait, what do you all think the stats should be for each of the leaders as units?

    Delving into the realms of possible stupidity, I was also thinking, perhaps if a leader is killed or usurped a new random leader could be created in their place. Creating a heir might be important! So I was wondering if there could be a link between traits, and leader unit stats.
     
  2. Monkeyfinger

    Monkeyfinger Deity

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  3. Marnok

    Marnok Marnok

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  4. JonathanStrange

    JonathanStrange PrinceWithA1000Enemies

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    I sometimes just arbitrarily choose a unit (usually an Ljosalfar archer), rename him JonathanStrange, try to keep him alive while getting XPs from barbs,etc., and see if he can last the entire game. Sadly, JS's luck always eventually runs out.

    Like an option if we could have our "leaders" in-game, either with or without combat powers, either game ending if killed or merely game changing (we get a new leader with new traits?), but I don't see it happening...
     
  5. GoodGame

    GoodGame Red, White, & Blue, baby!

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    Leadercide would be a cool game option, like from Civ3C. Sorry about your JS character. Figure that in 1000 fights, that 0.01% will come up. :)
     
  6. Seon

    Seon Not An Evil Liar

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    I grow up my units too, I try to keep him away from too dangerous combats and give him as many experience as possible. I managed to get 2 to 5 of them into immortal which after then I used them with abandon to conquer all my enemies :p.

    My best ever was a bloodpet that defeated orthus with 5% chance of victory.
     
  7. zup

    zup Emperor

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    That's like 100 xp for one victory? I got 70 from him when I beat him at 8.X% odds.
     
  8. Keyeth

    Keyeth Chieftain

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    I think it's 10,000 for 0.01% .. Also it's usually <0.01%, so it's like.. 10,000+ .. I hate when this stuff happens. =(
     
  9. cIV_khanh93

    cIV_khanh93 Prince

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    u dont get 10,000 exp from one fight keyeth :p
     
  10. solistus

    solistus Warlord

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    khan: I think he was talking about # of fights on average to see a 0.01% chance to lose happen, not the exp gain from the fight.

    The odds of surviving N 99.99% chance fights is .9999^N. 10,000 fights actually only gives a little less than a 37% chance of survival. To stay above 50% odds you couldn't fight more than 6931 battles. That's assuming the % is actually 99.99 and not higher.
     
  11. megamanx06

    megamanx06 Caswallan

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    it can't be that high... i got 15 exp from about 10%
     
  12. retro V

    retro V Prince

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    From Orthus?! Is that with Slower XP settings, because that's much lower than what you should get?

    The last fluke Orthus kill I can remember was about 25% odds and my warrior came away with 42xp (2xp of which may have come from Apprenticeship).
     
  13. PanzerWolf

    PanzerWolf Chieftain

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    It must be something else. I've gotten maybe 20-30 XP from killing him with <50% odds (can't remember how low, maybe in the 20s or 30s)
     
  14. JonathanStrange

    JonathanStrange PrinceWithA1000Enemies

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    Actual XPs gained seem also to depend on the loser's strength at the battle's start; a weakened Orthus generates less XPs when killed. Levels also seem to effect XPs gained (or did). A recent patch may also (I can't recall exactly which) have reduced XPs gained from victories against barbarians like Orthus.
     
  15. Minor Annoyance

    Minor Annoyance Deity

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    Are we not counting Hyborem, Basium, and Auric Ascended? Because I'm surprised that no one mentioned them in the three days this discussion as been active.
     
  16. Marnok

    Marnok Marnok

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    I was surprised too!

    I wouldn't want to take anything away from thir uniqueness, I think implementing other leaders would be subtly different. Thing is, it would have to be an all-or-nothing deal, so I would need stats (and unique promos etc) for every leader to play around with. Just digging up enough lore to create a profile of each leader would make this quite a task to get started. (Then there is the modelling...)
     
  17. JonathanStrange

    JonathanStrange PrinceWithA1000Enemies

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    Hyborem, I didn't mention, cause even if I were playing that faction, I don't fancy myself a giant winged demon. It's just not me. Great graphics though. I wish battles with him actually shook the computer or the lands around him echoed with an occasional devilish roar!

    BUT, it's a good point against arguing that a leader unit can't be incorporated into the game.

    Basium Never liked 'im, never commanded his civ, doubt I ever will so I forgot about him.

    Auric Ascended More a legend to me than a reality. I want a leader from Day One but I can see why people would try for ascension.

    Still, we do have in-game Kings, in a sense. Now, I'd like King Amelanchier to rule from Evermore.
     
  18. black_imperator

    black_imperator Emperor

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    I made a Regicide gameoption yesterday :
    At the moment , if you choose regicide gameoption , you gain your leader as a unit at the beginning of the game , with a hidden promo RexI
    Once the unit has been killed, a second leader rises, with the RexII promo , and if he is killed the game is finished.

    I have three problems:
    -Need ideas for making the leaders fun to play with
    -Need models ( Cardith is a Puppet at the moment ^^)
    - Need an idea for one-Leader Civs ( Sidar, Mercurians, Infernals, Ilians,Savartalfar, Grigoris, Kuriotates)

    some ideas :
    Auric: begins the game with auric which becomes ascended when you have the ritual

    Thessa: elven archmage, plan to give her a spell which kills an unit to cast a local genesis and sanctify spell

    Perpentach : mimic, can use mind transfer on allied units to change corpses and stats

    Sabathiel : Angel with a special Weapon with law affinity

    Capria : Champion with bonus against orcs

    Falamar and Hannah : land units ( atm Guybrush for falamar) who give a promo to the ships they are in ( Hannah's FlagShip, Falamar's Galleon)

    Os-Gabella: dimension spells

    Tebryn : archmage which becomes immortal when abashi is created , until the dragon is killed ( maybe the same mechanics for Cardith)

    Cardith : random chances to see some others units to join him ( based on relations with the original civ )
     
  19. PPQ_Purple

    PPQ_Purple Techpriest Engineer

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    Esentialy there should be some way to balance it.
    This is my sugjestion:
    Leaders can be detached from the empire and walk as individual hero units.
    Losing your leader will make you lose all your leader traits.
    Add a new ritual: Return Effect: Resurects a fallen leader. Can only be done once.

    Leader abilities:
    1. Join city:
    - enters the city as a super specialist.
    - can be removed from said city at any time.
    - said city acts as the capital of the empire (reduced maintenence and if it is conquered the leader counts as killed).

    2. Join army:
    - Joins a unit as a great general.
    - The unit gains the "Lead by [leader name]" promotion. Effects are diferent for each leader.
    - All the leaders promotions are temporary aplied to said unit.
    - can be removed from said unit at any time removing with him all the bonuses.
    - if the said unit is killed, the leader is killed allong with it.

    Esentialy, the leader starts in the join city state in your first city and can than be released upon the earth.
     
  20. razzach

    razzach Warlord

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    Cool idea but won't this weaken Hyborem/Basium their leaders don't start at capital at creation. Also, these units should not be started at first city but can be unlocked at later techs - too powerful warriors or scouts early...
     

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