Adventurers

[xienwolf]

I just played as the agnostic ex-angel, and I was quite taken with the adventurers in general.


Any chance that there is a move away from standard Great people in general and toward leader specific great people in each culture?

I personally think it is a better move than the standard buildable heroes. I'd love it if the technolody wich unlocks a buildable hero instead just unlocked a new promotion line (or single promotion) for any existing/future hero of the civilization. Then you can custom build your own unique hero units through the course of the game.

Instead of leader specific heros, it could even just be leader specific promotion paths available to heros, and allow something similar to adventurers for each civ (though then the agnostics would need something new, or just to be more likely...)

 

[MacGyverInSpace]

Still, but what about my Gilden flavour?

Also, the adventures are an advantage, getting powerful units with GPP. The Grigori are weakened to balance this, and to give the system to all Civs would mean a drastic change in the game.

 

[KillerClowns]

This is just my interpretation, from a flavor standpoint. It is completely non-canon: I could be totally and utterly wrong.
The Adventurers and their flexible nature are decidedly Grigori, and only Grigori, in flavor. All the other civilizations rely upon fate and the gods to guide their paths (regardless of what the power-drunk servants of the Ashen Veil may claim). They can't have customizable heroes because they are bound to fate by their devotion; they get whoever their gods/fate choose to bless. Heroes are born. They are shaped and guided from their first breath by whatever higher power chooses them as their instrument.
Adventurers are different. They are not born under any special stars, and are not blessed by any gods. They are people who have, with nothing more than mental and physical training, made themselves into heroes. They are the classic self-made men. They are free to do as they please, and thus can follow whatever path they choose. Technically, yes, you as the player choose their fate. But they have sworn to serve their nation, and you are the leader of their nation. They are free to become whatever is best for their people.

We could also look at it from a game play perspective. Most civilizations can be customized through different religions. I have been mixing the Balseraphs with the Order with some interesting results, for instance. The Grigori can't do that. But they do have their adventurers. They may not get to toy with the dark magic of the Ashen Veil. But they can make a mockery of Sheamin and Amurite mages alike with a mystically inclined adventurer. (Though they lack the sheer style of a Balseraph puppeteer...) They might not be able to fortify themselves in an impenetrable, treant-filled forest as the Fellowship can. But an adventurer/longbowman is a nightmare to pry out of any city.

But with all that having been said, your suggestion for civ-specific Great People is interesting. I can imagine some sort of lesser inquisitor for the Bannor, for instance. Or maybe a Sheaim GP who can sacrifice himself to either summon some demons or up the AC. Seems unlikely, but I'm going to just chuck it out there.

 

[Sureshot]

the way heroes were done in Age of Ice scenario would be awesome

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Indeed. I'm hoping there will be a few new heroes that can never be built but may join your cause through random events. And I mean more than the random event that just turned my Axeman into a hero and let me crush the Malakim early on; I want unique, flavorful heroes to offer us their services. It would also be nice if some heroes could be upgraded. I think a mage hero that can upgrade to an AV priest would be awesome (in part because he would have access to every spell in the game, except those unique to specific units)

(On a side note, when units abandon you for switching religions it should trigger an event allowing another civ that still follows their faith to recruit them as they are, instead of just killing/disbanding them.)

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Indeed. I'm hoping there will be a few new heroes that can never be built but may join your cause through random events. And I mean more than the random event that just turned my Axeman into a hero and let me crush the Malakim early on; I want unique, flavorful heroes to offer us their services. It would also be nice if some heroes could be upgraded.

I would agree, but we need to add the Empyrean and Council heroes first.

 

[Caradoc]

So what makes a unit become a hero? It seems that Combat 5 is a requirement, but what else?

 

[TheJopa]

Unit cant become a hero. You build either civ specific or religion spec. hero. These are unique world units.
Also if you play Grigori you can get Adventurers as a great people and then upgrade adventurers into any unit, it will be a hero.

 

[Pandemonis]

Indeed. I'm hoping there will be a few new heroes that can never be built but may join your cause through random events. And I mean more than the random event that just turned my Axeman into a hero and let me crush the Malakim early on; I want unique, flavorful heroes to offer us their services. It would also be nice if some heroes could be upgraded. I think a mage hero that can upgrade to an AV priest would be awesome (in part because he would have access to every spell in the game, except those unique to specific units)

(On a side note, when units abandon you for switching religions it should trigger an event allowing another civ that still follows their faith to recruit them as they are, instead of just killing/disbanding them.)

You describe something that sounds like Master of Magic for the heroes

As for the religion, the _requirement_ of the religion should always turn them against you, in my opinion, with no chance of disbanding. While the following a different religion should give them a chance to turn against you. At the moment, I dont see any reason to not let a religion spread to your lands, as you will get additional temples and bonuses/options for the same price, without getting anything bad from the "heathen" (except from global religious dominance for the religion victory).

 

[Silverkiss]

Unit cant become a hero. You build either civ specific or religion spec. hero. These are unique world units.
Also if you play Grigori you can get Adventurers as a great people and then upgrade adventurers into any unit, it will be a hero.

Actually units can become "heroes" (= gain the Hero promotion) through a random event.

 

[Rex rgis of Ter]

The Chamion unit event makes the unit that wins a hero. It really helps early game with rushing. It gives the winner the hero pormotion.

 

[TheJopa]

Actually units can become "heroes" (= gain the Hero promotion) through a random event.

What? Since When? I didn't know that. Is that a new event made for FfH?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

It was modified for FfH. Originally it granted the Leadership promotion (one of the promos otherwise available to great generals)

 

[Caradoc]

OK, now that we have established that I am not delirious, what exactly does it take to trigger the Champion event? The only time I saw it was when a Combat 5 Warrior defeated Orthus. Is Combat 5 a requirement? Do you need a kill on a Hero? Or is it just random?

 

[Sureshot]

fairly random, ive gotten it when ive had no city, on a relatively low level unit

 

[MagisterCultuum]

From the xml it looks like it will occur in 30% of the games, and that the only requirement is that you own at least 1 unit. The event is not recurring, so I assume it can only happen once, to only one player per game.

I assume that the line <iUnitExperienceWeight>1</iUnitExperienceWeight> means that it will be given to units with more experience, perhaps even only to the most experienced unit in your army, or perhaps even in the world.


Edit: I just looked in the python files, and found that it requires you posses a unit that has 3 or more xp and is at full strength (not damaged) and does not already have the hero promotion. It also looks like it will only happen while you are not at war with anyone, although it would be more logical if it were the other way around.

 

[Caradoc]

Thank you, MC. For this and lots of other answers to my questions.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

It also looks like it will only happen while you are not at war with anyone, although it would be more logical if it were the other way around.

Well, I think the BtS event it is modified from is the result of some military games or contest or something. That's why it's when you're not at war, though I haven't seen the FfH 2 version yet.