1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Adventures of the Vietnamese (III)

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Stories & Tales' started by 12tn2, Aug 4, 2012.

  1. 12tn2

    12tn2 Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2009
    Messages:
    306
    The Vietnamese are back! This time they'll rule the world under the lead of Lê Lợi – aka Lê Thái Tổ – a typical national hero. He rebelled against the Chinese Ming dynasty, who have taken over Việt Nam for about twenty years, effectively put an end to that brief period of northern domination, and established a new Vietnamese dynasty known as the Hậu Lê. As promised from the last adventure, now we'll face a higher level of difficulty – Prince. Take a look at the settings:

    Yes, the familiar map of Pangaea, and the familiar size of Standard. Those indicate that the Vietnamese had extended their knowledge to pretty far away kingdoms, but were still not able to reach across the ocean yet. The speed is adjusted to Epic to give the feelings of something a little more, well, epic. But there're some twists in the options of climate, sea level and shoreline. Before setting up the match, I've agreed with myself that the Vietnamese will be allowed a maximum of 2 map rolls. Both of them will be saved so we can choose the best and most factual start. After getting one save of random climate – low sea – random shoreline set, I thought, “ok next time I should choose the default”, and the second save is of temperate – medium – natural ones. These three are the only differences between the two starts.
    As always, the victory conditions are all enabled. Ancient era – do I need to mention that? And this time no additional options are selected. In fact it resembles the situation at the time: the barbarians are no longer everywhere, and it's the 14th - 15th century! So tech trading was of course available between civilizations. Oh, about the opponents: there're ten AIs, all random chosen. Will be somewhat crowded then...
    So, are you ready? Let's go! :king:
     

    Attached Files:

  2. 12tn2

    12tn2 Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2009
    Messages:
    306
    So we've rolled our two maps. What are the results? For the first try, the Vietnamese get a coastal position, with wet rice and clam as seafood, and a neighboring hut. The second attempt yields us a start with irrigated corn and silk, and also a tribal village in range. Since the former save gives a more factual situation (the Vietnamese is a rice civilization :)), Le Loi decides to take it and build his empire from there:

    Mind you, this is also the map with random climate, low sea level and random coastline I mentioned before. Which means the pangaea will be a bit larger, but the land is somewhat less fertile (I think any climate other than temperate will produce worse tiles ;)).
    Now let's take a brief look at where we'll settle. Judging from what seems to be the ocean just south of us, and this being a pangaea map, Le Loi's first guess is that we're on the south side. Or isn't it? If that's true, then why the resources' icon are all pointed in a direction that indicates the northern hemisphere? :crazyeye:
    But the Vietnamese can answer that question later. Now the important objective is finding a place to found our first city. But... hmm, it seems that we don't have many choices (if any) :( Getting to any forest tile or hill will cost us a turn. Step on the rice? No, thanks for the advice :p Visiting the hut? We'll lose two food resources to gain at least two more desert tiles. Thus, stay in place is the best move :) We then can possess three decent food sources and five (six) forests for further use. Hammer count will also not be too shabby, since we have two hills in the radius. What's more, access to fresh water and a good village result right from the start! :goodjob:
    Not the best position ever, but good enough to live on. Let's go! :king:
     

    Attached Files:

  3. Daedwartin

    Daedwartin Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2012
    Messages:
    1,781
    Location:
    Grand Daedwartian Union
    stay where your are. i think those 2 crab would only be both reachable if you stay there. that way, three food resources. also move the Scout to the goodie hut. you might get something very nice.
     
  4. strijder20

    strijder20 Wallowing in irony

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    5,047
    Location:
    In Dystopia
    Coastal starts? That's new to this series.
     
  5. 12tn2

    12tn2 Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2009
    Messages:
    306
    Wow, your memory is quite impressive, then :goodjob: Even I need to take a few seconds to remember the two last starts :lol: Anyway, that's a new flavor to the game, right ;)
    You're right, it's just what we're going to do. But why waste a scout move when we'll get that hut with our culture, anyway? I don't know if culture does produce hostile results or not, but from my experience it never :p
     
  6. 12tn2

    12tn2 Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2009
    Messages:
    306
    ...and then Le Loi has ordered the founding of Hà Nội, the Vietnamese capital. While waiting for it to finish our first worker, which seems like forever on epic speed :sad: our scout follow his only route to the north, hoping to discover someone on the way. Um, it did happen very soon. Just five turns into the match, yet we've got to see the capital of our opponent:

    So it's Peter of the the great Russia. It's so irrational he founded Moscow, not his favorite St. Petersburg :lol: What makes Le Loi even more confused is that this capital possesses some desert floodplains just two tiles south of the northern ice cap and next to a deer :crazyeye: What's more, it looks like that Peter has used his wealth to dig an entire river through Moscow, and bought thousands of seeds to grow countless forests around the city. What a starting position! Yet his settlement is also on the verge of blocking our empire into a tiny peninsula – bad for us here. Guess Le Loi and his people have to act quick to prevent that scene to happen, but another bad thing is that Moscow was founded on a hill! Plus its natural protection from the river, this city will be a tough nut to crack :mad: It seems that the situation is turning worse for the Vietnamese this early in the game :rolleyes:
    But that does not mean there's no good news at all. The settlement of Hanoi instantly brought us about 80 gold from the tribal village. During his trip to the north, our scout visited another hut, and earned us another 70. So the Vietnamese have 152 gold in their treasury now – quite a large amount, isn't it? Hope it will become handy in the far future... But for now, we're still stuck at Mining – haven't reached even the halfway point yet :(
     

    Attached Files:

  7. 12tn2

    12tn2 Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2009
    Messages:
    306
    As time flies by, the Vietnamese continue to meet more civilizations of this sole continent. This is a picture of two among them:

    Yeah, that is really a close encounter ;) A Persian scout is adjacent to ours, and a Roman warrior is next to both. So Cyrus and Caesar probably have just met the very last turn. Other than these guys, we have come across Alexander (him again :)) and Louis, too. More relations are usually good! But it seems that we're being boxed, and even tighter than the last case with Đinh Tiên Hoàng! :mad: Hmm...
    So what do Le Loi's neighbors think of each others? Not to our surprise, there're already some elevated and some bitter attitudes. As usual, the well dressed Louis likes both Alex and Peter (now his real sexual orientation is really in question :D), while the Greek leader and Cyrus don't get along very well (and the Persian leader is now having some trouble with his rear, if you haven't realize. He blames Alex to be the one responsible for this :lol:). Only Caesar keeps his cool, and doesn't express any feelings toward anybody. Well, maybe that's only true before he meets any woman... :p
    Speaking of those women, between turns, Buddhism was founded. Guess who? Le Loi doesn't know, but he sure is smart enough to not pursue the religion path. On Prince and not having Mysticism off the gate, it's best to focus the research on other issues. Like mining, for example. 300 years into the game, the Vietnamese have achieved their first technology! (wow, that was a long time. Le Loi didn't think it would cost his people all those years just top be able to break some stone :rolleyes:). Anyway, this is my first time trying to finish an Epic game, after all :mischief:
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Daedwartin

    Daedwartin Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2012
    Messages:
    1,781
    Location:
    Grand Daedwartian Union
    Reader Demand: ATTACK ROME FIRST. you don't want him to get Prats. they are murderous;y effective at war.
     
  9. 12tn2

    12tn2 Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2009
    Messages:
    306
    While I agree with you about the Praets, it's hard to make attacking Rome first possible. I'll explain it some time later.
    About more than 500 years from the beginning of history, our scout discovers another civilization on the planet:

    It's Montezuma the crazy :rolleyes: As a tradition, he's always 'pleased' when meeting everyone, but who knows what this guy is mumbling beside his 'slaughter fifty thousand' one. Much to Le Loi's surprise, the Aztec leader is even at annoyed attitude toward Julius Caesar, aside from Cyrus. And he doesn't show his usual respect toward the fellow warmongers like Louis XIV, Peter and especially, Alexander :confused: This guy is always unpredictable, particularly when his empire has access to those elephants out there :crazyeye: Seems like even Louis doesn't want to involve with Monty's dangerous behavior, since he denied a desert hill with good sight to choose a much worse tile for the purpose of exploration. Guess it's not wise to displease him, so the Vietnamese look for a peace with the Aztecs for now.
    Now let's take a glance at the right area of the picture. It's the French land. Looks like we can affirm of who's gonna take the monopoly of Incense trade right now. In addition, a forest full of silk worms is also revealed to be in possession of Louis. What a happy land he have! This guy must also love calendar very much, Le Loi supposes ;)
    But those resources are not all. Just look to the south west of Paris, our leader turns out envying with his neighbor. At least six floodplains! Guess some guys are just born luckier than others. And the Vietnamese are just facing only disadvantages till now! What to do, what to do :sad:...
     

    Attached Files:

  10. 12tn2

    12tn2 Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2009
    Messages:
    306
    Up until this turn, our scout hasn't face any threat from wild animal. But that luck can't last long:

    Uh oh, looks like he still doesn't have to face any animal in the literal sense, since the lion approach the Vietnamese pioneer from behind! :lol: Even worse than a confront then. Really smart, huh? Too bad for the lion, our scout was just pretending to be unaware of it, in order to lure the animal into a uphill fight. The next turn, it rises to the bait and attack him. Quite a tough battle, the Vietnamese guy is hit to half his hit point, but at least he wins. Now he'll have to spend some hundred years to heal – hope the fresh air in the woods will help it quicker. This spot is indeed a decent place not only to cure your wounds, but also to settle some population. Lots of forests to compensate the lack of fresh water, a wheat farm to support your growth, and moreover, a marble source to speed up your wonders. Too bad it's too far from Le Loi and his people for now :sad:...
    Talking of the Vietnamese, this year also sees the completion of our first worker – yay! After such a long long time it's even enough for the French to nearly double us in score! Now Le Loi is standing at the dead last place of the table – everyone else is leaving him a significant distance, included a newly met Mao Zedong of the Chinese. Starting slowly seems to be the Vietnamese's unique trait :crazyeye: But now with our worker doing some appropriate irrigation to the rice tile, a farm will appear soon (well, not so soon, Le Loi has to admit) to help with our growth.
    Meanwhile, technologically, the Vietnamese are crawling toward Bronze working. Like a thousand years. Arrg, epic speed sure is hard to who is not used to it :(...
     

    Attached Files:

  11. 12tn2

    12tn2 Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2009
    Messages:
    306
    You are probably guessing what our capital is producing: yes it's a warrior.

    It may not look so, but the growth of Hanoi and its build is timed to finish at the same moment – we'll benefit from the rice farm from the next turn. They are also loosely matched with the discovery of Bronze working (phew, finally! :crazyeye:), so Le Loi will have a chance to look for a best choice for his first whip. However, a workboat is maybe out of options, since the Vietnamese don't start with Fishing, and researching the tech would cost us other painful eight turns to wait. Thus, for the near future, Hanoi will have to rely on the rice for its growth. Too bad we can't grow to size 2 before the first 1000 years elapse :(
    So does it appear that Le Loi is not a good leader in term of economy? Not really, but it's true to some extend, because historically he's a warrior. Any of you wonder why his traits are Philosophical and Organized? In the XV century, this guy led the rebel against the Chinese Ming, who had been dominating the Vietnamese people for more than ten years. He obtained the help of many talented persons, one among them is Nguyễn Trãi – a UNESCO commemorated Great man of culture of the world. Is that convincing enough for Le Loi to be Philosophical :)? And after nine years of arduous fighting, in 1427 he managed to sweep the Chinese back to the north, and became Lê Thái Tổ, the founder of the Hậu Lê dynasty. Then he ordered many works and reorganization in the fields of administrative structure, education, religion, law and economy to tidy up the aftermaths of the war and bring the nation up not only to its previous stance but also even stronger. And that's why Le Loi is also Organized.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. 12tn2

    12tn2 Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2009
    Messages:
    306
    Well, it's just turn 34, and we can see one of our AI opponents has settled his second cit... wait, WHAT :eek:?? A second site this early?! Omg I need to check the victory screen again, or are we playing Immortal? :crazyeye:

    Hmm, but wait, something is wrong with this picture. How in the world can that second settlement – or whatever it is – gain the fledgling culture level within the first 1000 years of history :confused: Even Deity AIs can hardly do that. The only possible case for this thing to happen is the second city to be a holy one. But so far only Buddhism has been founded, and no one we know converted to that faith. So... :rolleyes:
    So Le Loi takes a closer look into the region, and now he discovers that those cultural borders are actually of two different civilizations :mischief: Phew! Man, this is one of the few bad things of Civ4: some colors are so identical! Especially when they are darkened by the fog, anyone can make mistakes like this! Anyway, this discovery also significantly helps explaining the attitudes of both the Greek and the Persian toward each other. With Alexander this near, no wonder Cyrus described him as a pain in the butt :D
    But that nearly-shocking news is just too good when compared to this. The last turn saw the tech Bronze working to be completely researched, and guess what we found in our capital? Yes, just as some of you might think, it's nothing :sad: No copper at all, even in the nearby area. This terrible situation has happened to us continually and throughout all of our three adventures! Sigh... it seems that the no-copper stance is a curse the Vietnamese have to bear. And we can't go for Iron working now, the tech screen shows a horrible time of about fifty turns! :mad:
     

    Attached Files:

  13. Daedwartin

    Daedwartin Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2012
    Messages:
    1,781
    Location:
    Grand Daedwartian Union
    You need to seriously get your game on. Your dead last place. That's never a good thing. At all.
     
  14. hoplitejoe

    hoplitejoe Top fun-poster

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    Messages:
    5,466
    Sorry I am late! and points matter so little in the first 100 turns it is not an issue.
     
  15. 12tn2

    12tn2 Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2009
    Messages:
    306
    Good point. I'll try my best.
    Even a better point! :) It's lucky that we're playing epic, otherwise quick speed won't forgive those who're dead last after the first 100 turns ;)
    During these four or five turn, the Vietnamese have met all the remaining civilizations, one after another. Turned out they are Tokugawa (ha! Nice to meet you again! This time, open borders, no :p?), Hatshepsut and and – you may have already known – Isabella. So Le Loi's guess is not wrong at all – Izzy is the one who founded Buddhism :goodjob: Our new bet is that she's now pursuing another religion, her dead last score says all about it. Meanwhile, the other female leader of the Egyptian is in the middle of the table, and Toky is surprisingly taking the lead. Now that all the opponents have shown their faces, let's take a look at the demo and find if it can tell us something.

    Well, the numbers indicate that the Vietnamese are not too shabby at anything – none of the indexes place us in the eleventh rank. But in fact, we've been sitting in the dead last positions in many fields for so long that Le Loi had to delay the announcing of those demo to save our faces :mischief: We've just climbed out of the deep hole for one or two turns, when our population finally reached 6000 men – that's equal to six other nations. Four cities have got to size 3 already, and they're likely to be Kyoto, Tenochtitlan, Moscow and Paris respectively, judging from the scoreboard. From the approval rate, it's quite a surprise to know that somebody has done very well to get two happiness on this early. One of the size 3 civs also got their hands on a luxury resources, and that's bad news. Oh, and someone has managed to lower the average lifespan of his people to 46 already :crazyeye:! Peter and Louis obviously can't do that, so it's either Toky or Monty. Man, why are those weird and crazy guys always blessed with a bunch of floodplains :rolleyes:?
     

    Attached Files:

  16. 12tn2

    12tn2 Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2009
    Messages:
    306
    In the year of 2770BC, the second faith of the world was founded. Le Loi has taken a glance at the religion summary, and since the Hinduism and Buddhism have the same percent of world population, he came to an educated guess that they're both founded by one civilization – thus the Spanish. But it turns out not true at all:

    So Alexander has once again proved to be a Hindu believer. He did this in the last adventure of the Vietnamese as well :crazyeye: Don't know when he has become a hardcore religion pursuer, though :)
    On another news, our scout scores his second victory over the wild animals, which gains him a promotion to spend. He's also the guy who brought Le Loi to all of his competitors, so our leader decides to give him the name of Nguyễn Xí in honor of his deeds. After some rest, Xi will continue his trip to find the starting locations of the last three civilizations we yet haven't know of. The surroundings of where this guy is healing is not very good for the health, but a heaven for anyone's food. Look at those floodplains! And the wine, and the stone! And a wheat field as the cream on the cake! Le Loi can tell that this region will soon be filled with cities. If they're Egyptian, there's a high chance Montezuma (did you notice a small line of Aztec green color some tiles south of the wheat?) will declare his first war against Hatty. We'll see...
    After Fishing, the Vietnamese choose to try making some wheels. It's a safe choice for the moment, because we haven't really decided what to focus on now – both Horseback riding and Iron working are awfully long ways to go :(...
     

    Attached Files:

  17. hoplitejoe

    hoplitejoe Top fun-poster

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    Messages:
    5,466
    I would go horses I think, it is cheaper right?
     
  18. 12tn2

    12tn2 Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2009
    Messages:
    306
    Right, chariots are cheaper, and we're pursuing that route. However, the horse archers need way more beakers than the swordsmen :(
    Recently we were talking about Le Loi's traits. Actually, regarding this person, there're also many legends about his sword and his rebellion period. For example, one of those myths states that the mutineer's sword is a gift from heaven. He acquired two parts of this weapon by chance, and when Le Loi assembled them together it glowed and showed the words “Thuận Thiên” (consented by God) on the blade. Since then, his campaign saw great success, in contrast to the previous days. And when he has became the emperor, one day Le Loi made a sightseeing tour on a lake in Đông Kinh – the name of Vietnam's capital at the time. Suddenly a golden turtle rose to the surface and asked the emperor to return the sword to the gods, then that the country has seen the invaders swept out and peace has come back to the people (according to this legend, that turtle was also the one who has given its claw to An Dương Vương, thus helped him to make the redoubtable Nỏ liên châu and to build the Cổ Loa citadel. But I highly doubt it ;)). Le Loi then stood up, drew the sacred sword and threw it into the lake. The turtle quickly grabbed it and submerged. The glowing light from the sword blurred but could still be seen for a long time. That lake where the emperor give back his weapon was then called hồ Hoàn Kiếm (lake of returning the sword). It's now in the center of modern Hà Nội.
    The myths are proofs of how high the old time people valued this hero. Now that Le Loi has established a solid foothold in his men's hearts, let's see where he's standing when compared to other opponents:

    Uh, number nine is not a very impressive rank, we have to admit. The Arid climate helps worsen the situation, though, since there's likely no 'pink dot' to pull us up...
     

    Attached Files:

  19. Lord_Herobrine

    Lord_Herobrine Back in the Saddle

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2012
    Messages:
    1,148
    Location:
    Michigan
    Interesting read so far.

    I would advise you to take advantage of your 152 gold and found a 2nd city at the mouth of the penninsula, so the Russians dont trap you in with their second city. You might also have access to Copper up there for Axemen.
     
  20. Dumanios

    Dumanios MLG

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2008
    Messages:
    4,875
    Destroy Peter, his vanilla colour did not fit at all.
     

Share This Page