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Advice for first game at Immortal level

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by Darviathar, Aug 26, 2014.

  1. Darviathar

    Darviathar Chieftain

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    I realize I'm a few years behind the times, but I feel as though its time to move past Emperor level. King-Emperor didn't feel like that big of a step; I could still get a few choice early wonders if I started with tradition and had a productive capital. Is that going to likely be the case with Immortal? I know better than to try to string together 3 wonders in a row at this point. Which victory type is likely to be the easiest to come by for my first game?
     
  2. TheGrumpyBuddha

    TheGrumpyBuddha King

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    SV, probably, but here's the key for Emperor-->Immortal:

    1) AI now starts with a worker. Steal at least one of them.
    2) CS get workers earlier. Also steal one of them.
    3) Don't build any early wonders unless you get some sort of miracle start. Be happy to get your 3-4 city Tradition empire rocking early, and you should begin to be able to wonder-whore starting with Sistene and Pisa (hopefully).
     
  3. tetley

    tetley Head tea leaf

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    I will go more extreme and say to worker steal all you can and also to pillage. They start with workers, and that means their tiles are improved.
     
  4. TheGrumpyBuddha

    TheGrumpyBuddha King

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    You can get some severe warmonger penalties if you steal from more than one AI or more than one CS. With the latter, you also have CS start fearing you, which changes their resting point to -20. Risky.

    As noted many times, one option is to steal from a CS, don't immediately go for peace, and then mug them again later, THEN take peace. No additional penalty there.
     
  5. budweiser

    budweiser King of the Beers

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    Sure you can get a wonder but you have to be quick and choose wisely. Still, it might not be worth it. The Oracle can be a safe bet unless you see Pacal.
     
  6. Resipsa

    Resipsa King

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    Research agreements start to become worth it if you are swimming in gold
     
  7. DarkestOnion

    DarkestOnion Prince

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    1. Steal AI Workers, or failing that CS Worker
    2. Shift focus off of Early Wonders (unless your swear you need Stonehenge/chop-chop) and onto Naional Wonders (the National College ASAP in particular)
    3. Build a Defensive Army much earlier than you did on Emperor to repel possible Early DoW's.
     
  8. Darviathar

    Darviathar Chieftain

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    I saw another thread talk about the best civilizations for deity level. Babylon, Poland, Korea, and Maya.

    Babylon Korea I can readily understand, because of the science bonus.

    What makes the other two so strong? I had thought that China was the best all-around civilization from my experience at low levels.
     
  9. MrDumpstertrash

    MrDumpstertrash Chieftain

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    You don't understand how many extra SP you gain, and how much of a benefit it is. Maya get early science, and probably an early religion as well. Do not underestimate the power of those two civs.

    The AI on this level will DOW you if they either think you are weak or a competitor. Early defense!
     
  10. Memoryjar

    Memoryjar Emperor

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    With Poland, from classical to modern era it's 6free social polices, so 1 tree. Powerful ! For Science game on Immortal it's a Full Traditon/Liberty or Full Tradition/Scholasticism/Mercantilsm before Rationalism. Or With Oracle, Rationalsm opening + secularism when you hit Rennaissance.

    Maya : +2 science with a shrine and 5 to 6 free great persons.
     
  11. johnny_rudeboy

    johnny_rudeboy Warlord

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    Would not England be a good choice? One extra spy to steal tech. Longbowmen who are excellent on both offense and defence. And Ship of the line. If there is one area the AI struggle it is on the sea and with Englands extra movement and really powerful ship you can pretty much dominate that terrain. With the Great Lighthouse (if that wonder if possible on Immortal) should be a no brainer.

    So far I have only tried a couple of games on Immortal but with no luck. And I really mean no luck. First game starts as Japan with a coastal start, 2 wales and a fish, hill and a river. Excellent. And on turn 3 discover that I have the Great barrier reef 5 and 6 tiles from my capital. Build a settler to get them and I do. But before that a Spanish scout comes by and 20 turns later I am invaded by swordsman, composite bowman and catapults. So many they did not all fit around my capital (coastal mind you).

    So I lose my two cities and it is game over. Start another game as Babylon. Spot a hill next to a mountain with a river close by when I move my warrior so I follow my settler to that spot. 2 stones, 2 marble and 2 salt (with more salt around for other cities). Great I think. But then on turn 3 I meet China who have their capital 5 tiles away from me. And she rather quickly starts to settle around me and I knew it would not take long before this game as well would be game over so I went back to Emperor...
     
  12. MrDumpstertrash

    MrDumpstertrash Chieftain

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    That sucks... and the Japan start was so good! Good idea about England though, I've been trying to go through all the civs and England was one of my dominant games.
     
  13. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

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    Great Library : Forget about it on Immortal

    You still have a good shot at any other 1 Ancient or Classical world wonder of your choice if you are willing to slow down settler construction during that time and start it early. But if you try a second ancient or classical world wonder after having finished the first you'll l get beat out.

    Your choice of Stonehenge or Oracle (but not both in the same game unless you are Venice / or this is an OCC) is probably the most popular for humans on Immortal since these are right on the path to NC.
    (There's others as well.) The least popular among humans on Immortal are the national wonders that are on techs that are normally deferred until after Philosophy. (The AI will probably complete those before you have the tech for it)

    In BNW on standard map size with the default 16 city states, Diplomatic Victory is normally easyist. Standard Science is King tactics going into the Modern era, after a few key Modern era techs lay down a pure beeline to Globalism. Open Patronage to build FP. Use city state quests & spies to become allies. (Go Freedom and adopt the level 3 tenet that gives city state influence every turn with trade routes unless the World Congress has embargoed them.) If all else fails you can cash buy the remainder of city states the turn before the vote and then DOW all the AIs so they can't take them back during their turn.
    Be prepared for a fallback should a large number of city states be removed from the game. (If the Mongols or Huns conquered them, you can liberate them, but if it was Venice buying them or Austria marrying them, their gone)

    If you cut the city states down to a more reasonable level on Standard map size (say 8 for a 1:1 ratio), then basically the stars would have to line up perfectly for diplomatic to be fastest. (You must build FP, AI Venice must NOT be in the game, you must be able to liberate any city state that got conquered) This doesn't mean its impossible it's just that during the 20 turn delay following a failed world leader vote some other victory condition would have been faster if you'd gone after that instead.

    The faster between Science & Culture for normal number of AIs on standard map size as a normal civ (one without cultural or tourism bonuses) is going to come down to what your hammer production of your capital will be when you reach Printing Press, which in your first game on Immortal you might not have enough experience to know. (That period of the game has most of the theming world wonders.) Presence or absence of some of the other AIs is also a factor. (Example: Seeing AI Egypt would be a sign to go after science victory instead of cultural)

    On a map with more than 8 major civs, chances are high that scientific victory will be faster due to that more competition for those key wonders. Conversely, a map with fewer civs would make Cultural victory a shoe in.

    Any of the "God Tier" civs is best for the first Immortal level game. (Poland, Babylon, Korea, Inca, Spain *)

    * Spain is only at God Tier level if there is a nearby natural wonder that you are first to discover.
     
  14. Esperr

    Esperr King

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    I would definatly try poland for your first game on immortal, seeing as how there just really good at everything and have production heavy start bias.
     
  15. neilkaz

    neilkaz King

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    As a player who bounces back and forth between Emperor when he's rusty and Immortal when he's not, I'd recommend for Immortal playing with which ever of the game's top civs are the best. I'd also follow along a strategy published here by very good (ie Diety) players.

    I'm a fan of NC first with Babylon. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=503647&page=3

    Of course, if you don't have some space, you'd need to build your cities first while there's space. I find that I can often handle an early attack due to bowmen rather than archers and if desperate, Walls of Babylon. Bowmen can also be used for an early counter attack.

    Of course there's Poland and Tommy's great guide. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=501378

    When I lose at Immortal from a decent start, it usually is bcuz I am defeated militarily.
    When in doubt, and with aggressive civs nearby, make units.

    I can usually win with Poland or Babz, but can suffer with other civs.
     

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