[BERT] Advice for Gemini difficulty

[MarqFJA87]

Started my third Gemini difficulty playthrough (Franco-Iberia), and I'm surprised by how quickly all the other AIs outstripped me in almost every area. Each already had 3 or more cities by the time I felt I was in a good enough position (at least health wise) to start my first one, my capital is still at 6 pop when the other capitals are near or at 10 and their newer cities are more often than not about 6 pop themselves, the few cities I've scouted or could see with my spies have plenty of improvements (suggesting multiple workers and/or having made their first worker quite early), most of them are ahead of me in affinity levels, and I'm rapidly falling out with about half the AIs due to them being unimpressed with my production, military and other relations-influencing factors (depending on their chosen personality traits), to the point that two of them keeping declaring war on me simply because of abysmal opinion.

Oh, and I don't dare attack the aliens because there are at least half a dozen of them and a couple of nests near one of my aquatic cities, and I only have three ships to my name, all of which are too low-tier to not die quickly under the weight of numbers.

What am I doing wrong? My usual approach so far is to stock my capital with at least basic infrastructure (relic, trade depot, ultrasonic fence, clinic), then start building a colonist; in my previous playthroughs, I've started with the Propserity virtues, which ensured I got a worker and a colonist for free quite early, but this time I opted to go for Knowledge and Industry first since Franco-Iberia was culture-focused and I wanted to boost my gold output and wonder-construction rate. Should I have changed my build order?

EDIT: I forgot to mention that I'm playing on marathon speed.

 

[vorlon_mi]

Thanks for asking! I consistently play on Soyuz difficulty, with standard speed and standard sized planets, so I have 7 opponents.
I played an Apollo game or two (to get the Steam achievement) but it felt like too much work to be fun.

In my experience, the rate of expansion for the AI leaders depends a lot on the terrain around their capital. If they have fertile soil -- meaning not a lot of tundra -- they will usually expand to 3 or 4 cities by turn 100. No, they don't seem to mind the negative health. I'm not sure if that's an innate AI bonus or not.

<checks notes> In my current game, I founded my 2nd, 3rd, and 4th cities on turns 30, 50, and 75, respecitvely. I had some good river-fed land, so the cities grew reasonably quickly. Yes, I have negative health, around -10, even though I try to save up gold to buy a clinic in each city on the turn that it is founded. That's my first bit of advice: be a little more aggressive in starting to settle early. In this game, I'm playing INTEGR, but I don't think that Fraco-Iberia would be significantly different.

For virtues, I most often take Prosperity for the first 3 to get the one which allows more Explorer modules. Soon after, I go for the one in Might which gives extra Science for killing aliens. The Prosperity virtues for a free worker and free colonist are usually next up. These help me get going, regardless of which leader I play.

Other leaders talking trash: Yup, that's a thing. Pay close attention to *which* leaders are talking the most trash, along with their proximity to you. Check the score list that shows on the screen. If someone (like Chungsu or Slavic Federation) dislikes me -- but they're ranked 6 or 7 and are located 30+ tiles away, shrug it off. Certain leaders (lke Hutama or Samatar) are very easy to get along with. Once I get to 6 or 7 on the "Respect" metric, I try to get them to Cooperatiing. Starting to form a bloc, where you and 2-3 other sponsors all are mutually cooperating, can get a virtuous circle going.
Build your army steadily, grow your affinity, and you should be fine. If any of them actually lower the status to Sanctioned, then start looking for defensive positions and build a few more units. Leaders who stay Netural but talk trash usually declare on someone else, smaller than they are. The bottom 3 sponsor on the score chart sometimes become warmongers, trying to claw their way to the top. If you're comfortably number 4 or 5, you should be OK.

Pay particular attention to the leader who spawns closest to you. Be careful where you locate your expansion cities, relative to that sponsor's capital. I've had some nasty surprises where an AI leader feels that I'm forward settling them (whether I am or not) so they declare war on me.

Franco-Iberia's unique trait lets her earn virtues faster. When I play Elodie, I try to choose other personality traits (the ones you spend diplo capital on) so that she also gets bonuses for science or energy, to balance. I nearly always choose "Subtle" for improved success of spy missions. Once you have your spy agency built, the stolen energy can fun your cash purchases of healt buildings, allowing you to expand onto other good land.

Summary: worry most about trash talk from your closest neighbor. Instead, focus on growing your empire.

 

[vorlon_mi]

Catching up / passing the AI -- founding and growing cities is the best way to move from the bottom to the middle.

Moving to number 1 or 2 -- for that, you need to conquer somebody. In my games, I usually don't move up to the top until well after turn 200. I've equipped my cities with health buildings (first), science buildings (second), and either production (if they're inland) or defensive (coastal or aquatic).

 

[Darsnan]

My usual approach so far is to stock my capital with at least basic infrastructure (relic, trade depot, ultrasonic fence, clinic), then start building a colonist; in my previous playthroughs, I've started with the Prosperity virtues, which ensured I got a worker and a colonist for free quite early.... Should I have changed my build order?

In BERT I typically beeline to the free colony pod, free worker, and Pathfinder, in that order, before going Might to Scavenging so that I can start killing aliens and reaping the science and culture benefits. My early production is Explorer, Artifact, Explorer, Trade Depot, Clinic, a couple Rangers (or a Ranger and a sub on watery worlds), Lab, Recycling Tanks, Reactor, and then either Spy Agency or Rocket Battery, depending on who my neighbors are and how close they are. My Explorers pull in a lot of loot in the early game, and if needed Explorers can double as a poor man's speeder/infantry when dealing with a troublesome alien nest/ rover alien that's threatening my trade routes. I'll typically save up my Energy credits and buy a Recycling Tank in my second city: about the time its founded I've got the 320 EC's to buy the tank, which helps accelerate the city's growth. From there things deviate depending on the map and neighbors.

HTH get you going,

D

 

[MarqFJA87]

@vorlon_mi So you're basically saying that I'm doing more or less fine and should continue ahead?

@Darsnan I guess a modified version of my old approach to virtues is the way to go, huh? But what about the aliens getting mad from my attacks?

Also, keep in mind that I'm playing on Marathon (mainly because I didn't like how I never got much opportunity to use early tier units), so it takes like three times as much time to produce anything.

 

[legalizefreedom]

I don't recall ever playing on marathon. You might try a Standard game just to see what the overall effect is.

 

[Darsnan]

Also, keep in mind that I'm playing on Marathon (mainly because I didn't like how I never got much opportunity to use early tier units), so it takes like three times as much time to produce anything.

Good point on the Marathon mode and its implications: I'm the same as legalizefreedom in that I've never played Marathon mode. You can try his suggestion of playing a game on Standard just to gauge the delta, but a sample size of one may give misleading results.

I guess a modified version of my old approach to virtues is the way to go, huh? But what about the aliens getting mad from my attacks?

From my perspective a game should be fun, not frustrating (such as what it sounds like in your OP), so I think us giving some pointers that we think will help out is the way to go. From there its up to you to experiment and determine ultimately what is fun (because fun is subjective, and what I consider fun probably differs from you, vorlon_mi, legalizefreedom, Protok St, etc. ). My observation is the game has a lot of handles to help customize the environment you play in, so experimenting with those was always helpful to me to create the environment that I ultimately found fun.

Oh, and as far as aliens are concerned, from a Supremacy players perspective the only good alien is a dead alien.

D

 

[MarqFJA87]

Oh sure, I like to play my matches "in-character"; Franco-Iberia's fixation with extolling and exporting their predominantly European cultural heritage strikes me as being oriented towards Purity/Harmony's accelerationist self-perfection into gilded classical demigods that blend both the classically mythic and the exotically futuristic, and by extension it makes a lot more sense for me that they'd be as indiscriminately xenocidal and terraforming as the Purity affinity is typecast as.

I only asked because Marathon speed greatly throttles my ability to produce military units, which in turn impacts my plans for gradually wiping out the alien wildlife and nests as I expand; it shouldn't be a problem on Standard speed, though. Honestly, I would rather Marathon speed for teching and maybe virtues, and Standard speed for the more immediate gameplay elements (production, energy generation, etc.).

I guess I will start a new game on Standard speed, maybe even with Frenzied Aliens turned off (I used it because they seemed to quickly become underwhelming in my early playthroughs), if this Marathon match proves too much for me.

 

[vorlon_mi]

@vorlon_mi So you're basically saying that I'm doing more or less fine and should continue ahead?

@Darsnan I guess a modified version of my old approach to virtues is the way to go, huh? But what about the aliens getting mad from my attacks?

Also, keep in mind that I'm playing on Marathon (mainly because I didn't like how I never got much opportunity to use early tier units), so it takes like three times as much time to produce anything.

Yes, I think that you're doing fine. As you note, Marathon speed means that it takes longer to build things.
The biggest impact I see is that you may also find your research speed (beakers / turn) is lower, which means your affinity growth will be slower and your units will be underpowered for longer.

That matters most with aliens; their strength doesn't change during the game. Sea dragons are very scary for newbie ships; raptor bugs likewise for unpromoted land units. "Move and shoot" with ranged units can be effective. Note that the AI players are also growing at Marathon speed; they will face the same challenges with promoting their units.

I should point out that -- with staggered start turned on -- the sponsors who land on later turns than turn 0 are indeed given some extra units. Don't panic if they suddenly seem much stronger, since it may be their starting bonus.

 

[vorlon_mi]

And now you've got me curious, to start a game as Franco-Iberia on Marathon speed!

 

[vorlon_mi]

Some feedback from my (still in progress) Marathon game as Franco-Iberia:

• Turn 250, half of the AI are mad at me, some starting "phantom wars" where they never have any troops near me
• Turn 400, all but one of the AI are either sanctioned or at war with me, the other is Cooperating
• Turn 500, one Cooperating, everyone else Neutral, except my neighbor whom I attacked

Don't mind the negative health, as long as it doesn't go below -20. Keep expanding, in a direction that is not towards any AI. Build aquatic cities in a bay, and guard the entrance. Use cash/energy to buy health buildings. I've also bought Clinics with diplo capital, so that has slowed my progress in buffing my personality traits. Althernate building a unit with a building. Once you can get to level 5 in all 3 affinities, the health factors turn around and you move into positive health.

Since Marathon speed means that everything takes 3x longer, that means that turn 600 is like standard speed turn 200. Some of the smaller AI are getting their butts kicked, so they start revenge wars that may even lose them territory. I lucked into a piece of the Signal from a Progenitor ruin, so building the Transcendental Equation got me both pieces. My other neighbor -- PAU, who has been Cooperating for 450 turns or so -- has been expanding to the east and gobbling up cities. PAU has level 13 in Harmony with two of the 3 necessary techs complete. I'm figuring out how soon I will need to invade, to stop his Mind Flower.

By conquering my western neighbor, which got my troops experienced, and continuing to expand, I'm now #2 on the score list. To paraphrase Dory from "Finding Nemo", just keep growing, just keep growing.