tu_79
Deity
I was talking about France's Sprit de Corps in general.
Advice moving up to emperor
- Thread starter andersw
- Start date
A lot of text.....
I did some reloading so it isn't an emperor no reload game, mainly to correct combat movement mistakes, forgetting about rivers and misreading what is line of sight.
I was about one or two techs behind the incas and somewhat equal maybe one policy behind before going on the move.
I'd say difference between king and emperor is that an expansive move is pushed from catapult to some later stage, I was lucky with Brazil who did not prioritize defence or military so I conqered him with cats and pre medival units.
I was also lucky with a lot of warmongers which is even better you play authority yourself.
If I wasn't able to push Brazil I would have been postponed for a potential push around knights/treb or cannon/musketeers (france tercio uu).
In hindsight that was the good thing starting in the middle, I had choices of where to strike, it did mean defensive wars got a bit hectic, but all my cities were carefully chosen hills.
On a higher difficulty that start would have been even more tight and probably I would have crumbled.
Despite getting great library I wasn't running that extreme on techs even when I conquered Brazil and the Huns, still on par or a tech behind, we were 3-4 civs at the top around that tech level, a balance that impressed me.
Mongols and Incas were however running very high in citys, Incas topped at almost 20 cities when I was around 10 (he overrun Marocco) and Mongols were not that far behind Inca.
Policys however ...
I did grab protection pantheon (for better heal, garantueed culture and faith, one of my favourite goto's), and churches (they got buffed, first time trying and not going Mandirs) these also allowed for early music slots before castle if needed.
I settled most if not all of the first couple of free GPs from Espri from the war against Brazil gave me.
A beeline for Chivalry allowed me to vassal Brazil and I put down Chateau's (takes a fair amount of time, you may want to consider pre chopping areas for this, I did not) now this alone would have made for a great culture game.
And then got dowed by the Huns again (second or third time), I had to take them out as they don't take no for an answer, that was a slow and grindy war where I got hit by some war weariness at the end that almost failed me taking his capital.
I also opted for Theology to build Cathedral of st Basil and got Crusader spirit (culture and gold on city capture), not sure I had this vs the Huns maybe not until the Inca.
Both Huns and Brazil were fairly small and I took 3-4 citys each from them including cap.
I did notice that I got the nobility (first fealthy policy after opener) before Chivalry ie before crusader spirit and chateau, which meant that my culture output was high, also compared to king (or even prince) I had fewer cities around this time which can help regarding policys.
As I recall it was pretty much even game here all around.
However when I was stomping out Inca not only did I get a good amount of culture from crusader spirit, great writers from Espri gave me half a policy and I got one for every other city conquered and I got several great artists that kept me in golden age increasing culture even further and helped keep happiness in check.
During late Inca stompage I got dow from a backwards Japan, and exterminated him while mopping the last parts of interest of Inca and taking him as Vassal.
I ran through most of the Imperialism tree in what felt as no time, sitting now at 6/6/5 maybe 3 policys ahead of a snowball king game for me.
The wars against Inca combined with Mongols lack of focus I jumped 5-7 techs ahead of of Genghis, he have tercios but I have musketmen and cuirassiers and thats where I am now.
Greece and Poland is also in the game on paper but if I get an Ideology I'll win culture before I take them out.
The hammer bonus from Espri is good but not that many turns, it does however stack if you take a lot of citys fast which tends to happen when an empire lose key citys and gets depleted of gold/happiness.
The UU musketeer is good, in particular to surround citys, free move allows easier pillage to stay alive and you get free ones from authority finisher.
They are also excellent for sniping AI archers and catapults (or later equivalents) I wonder if the AI actually reads the threat of it's free movement.
Basically an AI that is behind (as in no tercio) when you get them is a quick rollover and die civ.
It is a bit late but not too late compared to the best UU's, I will also look into what abilities they keep on upgrade, difference here is big.
It would be interesting to see a diety game played as France, please mr Fencka.
If only he could stop playing marathon. There's no way I'm watching that, even though he plays well. I prefer standard but am also open to quick speed.
Oh I'm perfectly fine with marathon and lots of micromanagement, thats probably why I like his videos, I'm not a fan of the "turn on automation" games.
But someone I did like that I discovered a bit too late is Filthy Robot, his understanding of various strats, AI and the game in general was impressive to me, he doesn't however play VP.
Vortok
Chieftain
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2017
- Messages
- 69
Mounted Melee upgrade line of units. It even gives you a % chance to capture if you defeat the unit prior to attacking. It can be pretty handy for creating meat shields, among other things. As an aside, his Horse Archers don't require Horses... which can mean needing to find extra sources when it's time to turn them into Heavy Skirmishers.
I think I saw that rereading after my post, I missed the end of first line.
As noted, disgusting AI ability.
Somewhat handy in human hands.
Chances are captured units start in bad positions, get killed as fodder partly because of that and mostly cause war weariness, I maybe wrong of course.
I notice the difference in my new Ethiopia game how broken France were, omg.
Roughly 40 turns for a policy (raw turns, these get shaved off by various things) instead of the 20-25 I was at in the France game.
I read that there is a double dip on great musicians the version I use, not sure how that affected things.
All in all I feel I have improved a lot and emperor doesn't feel that harsh at all anymore.
Better early game play vs barbs really helps, also paranoia like settling all cities strategic which can be a bit inferiour regarding resources, and carefully choosing your first target, I want some spots to siege up, and rerolling junk starts.
Roughly 40 turns for a policy (raw turns, these get shaved off by various things) instead of the 20-25 I was at in the France game.
I read that there is a double dip on great musicians the version I use, not sure how that affected things.
All in all I feel I have improved a lot and emperor doesn't feel that harsh at all anymore.
Better early game play vs barbs really helps, also paranoia like settling all cities strategic which can be a bit inferiour regarding resources, and carefully choosing your first target, I want some spots to siege up, and rerolling junk starts.
I haven't played Greece but this is a rough outline of what I think would be the ideal Greek strategy:
1. Open with authority, prioritize units early (mainly warriors). Farm barbs, steal worker if possible, just play aggressively in general.
2. Go for early bronze working, upgrade existing warriors to hoplites.
3. With the tribute policy and a decent hoplite army, start bullying nearby city states.
4. Ideally cripple and/or fully conquer the nearest neighbour.
5. Early drama & poetry for the UB seems sensible.
6. Long-term, go authority - statecraft - imperialism. Ally lots of CS's but be willing to bully some of them, especially if there's a quest for it.
7. Go for conquest-assisted diplomatic victory, combining votes from city states and vassals to win.
That's the strategy I would try out for my first game with Greece.
Yes swapped to king instead, emperor requires too much for me.
And in an ideal world I want to delay bronze working otherwise I'd easily fall way back in tech on emperor.
I see the synergy with akropolis which gives a good amount of culture but hey even on king Ethiopia are some 4-5 techs ahead, and thats with me getting great library (sure he does have a city with barringer and could in theory also have great barrier reef) .
The Hoplites are strong for a spear but benefits more to AI early game jerk move, if I go on an early stomp I'll dig my own tech grave, atleast thats what happened when I tested.
They do help as I can delay of ironworking since they are basically swordsmen in strength.
Akropolis feels strong, now I've got it in several cities and getting almost 100 culture/kill (epic speed).
Don't worry about falling a bit behind in tech -- you'll easily recover that in the renaissance thanks to espionage.
You seem to discount strategies of early aggression as simply not working. That's wrong. Early aggression is very strong and I recommend practicing it to learn how to make it work. If you're playing on epic it's even stronger. All unique units, and all units in general, benefit the player more than the AI because players are better at using units.
Avoid relying on specific wonders like the great library. I never ever build that wonder on deity difficulty (I build other wonders though) and still catch up in tech around the renaissance, eventually building up a tech lead going into the industrial. If you're feeling that a specific wonder is a must-build then that's a crutch which is inhibiting your strategy rather than supporting it - there is no must-build wonder, even though there are many good wonders worth building on any difficulty level.
You seem to discount strategies of early aggression as simply not working. That's wrong. Early aggression is very strong and I recommend practicing it to learn how to make it work. If you're playing on epic it's even stronger. All unique units, and all units in general, benefit the player more than the AI because players are better at using units.
Avoid relying on specific wonders like the great library. I never ever build that wonder on deity difficulty (I build other wonders though) and still catch up in tech around the renaissance, eventually building up a tech lead going into the industrial. If you're feeling that a specific wonder is a must-build then that's a crutch which is inhibiting your strategy rather than supporting it - there is no must-build wonder, even though there are many good wonders worth building on any difficulty level.
Just to give some context, in my latest game I have acquired 3 techs in 18 turns due to espionage in the Renaissance era. So yes, you can catch up quite quickly.
Three is a small concilation if you were ten behind.
Being ten behind is pretty normal and perfectly okay. I've gone from being 10 behind in the early medieval to taking the lead at the end of the renaissance. Being badly behind in policies is worse because you can't steal policies, but even then I think you can perfectly well win the game without being #1 in policies. What matters is only whether you can win the game before the top AI's do.
chicorbeef
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2017
- Messages
- 1,548
A tech every 6 turns. Compare that to your normal science rate. +100% or more science from just a single spy is amazing.
Early espionage was nerfed recently, so Stalker may be playing an older version and you the newest.
The bottomline in my view is that even with the espionage nerf, being behind in tech early on is no problem. It's a mistake to overemphasize tech in VP - science whoring above all is vanilla gameplay, not VP. It's more important to build up your infrastructure, dominate the neighbours, and keep up in culture. All the other good things will follow from that.
tu_79
Deity
True. But I've found that I can't completely neglect science, hoping to catch up. Some techs are such a boost to the economy, that missing them hurts.
Nope, that is from my most recent game on the latest version. The thing is, the different in science I believe has an impact on steal rate. So if the divide is larger, steals are quicker. I don't have facts to that, its just a theory.
chicorbeef
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2017
- Messages
- 1,548
Tech steal rate slows down as you progress eras in the game and constabularies are built. But that first spy, slap it on the tech leader that has like 8+ potential for steals in their capital, before constabularies, and he'll promote to Special Agent in no time and steal a tech every 6 turns or so.
Are you sure it's not just the potential in the enemy capital is greater because their cities are that much better?
