Advice - my situation is...hurting...

[Rosicrucian]

I am playing the 3rd difficulty level - a step up for me. I am Germans, and I share a huge, convoluted border with the Romans. I have been building up for years in anticipation of being attacked, so I have good defenses (lots of pikemen, walls in all but the most interior cities). I also have a good deal of horsemen. Now, I want to attack the Romans because I am gradually falling further and further behind everyone in tech, and the way I see to help this is to claim some more territory (Romans have GOOD territory). I have gunpowder, but no saltpetre - they have saltpetre too. However, all I have is horsemen and 10 catapults...correct me if I'm wrong, but these are not going to do jack to walled pikes and legionaries are they? I will be getting Chivalry in 14 turns and I should have enough to upgrade, since I have Leo's.

but what I am thinking of doing is taking the horsemen in for some HEAVY DUTY pillaging. The Russians are already at war with the Romans so I might be able to forge an alliance there too. I'm talking just pillaging their land until all their top cities are worthless.

Advice? What would you do in this situation?

Thx

 

[XOVER]

Looks to me like you're playing at Regent level.

My advice is to immediately obtain some mutual defense pacts ('mdps'). Other civs tend to be much more open to a mdp than they are to an out-and-out alliance. Except for the civ that's already at war with your enemy. They will almost assuredly go for an alliance with you.

FIRST: Get some mdp's from non-warring civs. This is crucial for you because you believe your enemy is stronger than you. Sounds like you need some help in your war. Get the other civs, especially those on the same continent, hooked up with mdps and rights of passage. Get your mdps even if you have to pay for them. Get your mdps even if that civ already has an mdp with your enemy. It's ok.

SECOND: DON'T DECLARE WAR OR TAKE WAR EQUIVALENT ACTION AGAINST YOUR ENEMY, such as pillaging. Instead, move all the units you want to use for your assault against your enemy into the enemy's territory. Your enemy will demand that you move them out or declare war. DON'T DECLARE WAR AND DON'T MOVE YOUR UNITS OUT OF ENEMY TERRITORY. If you declare war, then your mdps are no good, and if there is an mdp existing between your friendly civ as well as your enemy civ, then your friendly civ goes to war against you.

Just choose the ignore option. Your enemy will then declare war against you. Once that happens, your mdps will kick in on the next turn, and you will have help in your war against your enemy. The key to warfare is getting the other guy to declare the war. Then you are the "hero," and the other civ's declarations of war work in your favor, rather than against you.

Also, I wouldn't pillage the enemy's improvements necessarily. If you've got some strong allies coming to your aide, then wait for your allies to show up and fight. Your allies will typically carry the brunt of the warfare if you have the luxury of waiting on them. Your allies will fight the enemy in the field while you concentrate on defeating the enemy's weakened cities. Once you take the enemy's cities, you'll be glad the improvements are still there.

THIRD: On the same turn your enemy declares war with you, go ahead and approach the other civ that's already at war with your enemy about an alliance against the enemy. Since that civ is already at war with your enemy, they will undoubtedly go for an alliance. But note further: Be sure to see if your prospective alliance civ will pay you gold per turn for the alliance. Usually you can make some coin for 20 turns if you come in on the side of a warring civ. So get paid for the war.

FOURTH: Once war is declared, make sure to go back with all the nations involved on your side, and get them to agree to an embargo against your enemy. An embargo will help you remember when your 20 turn commitment is over, plus it helps keep your allies in lock-step with you.

FIFTH: Don't forget that your mdp/alliance commitments last for 20 turns. Even if your allies make peace with the enemy in violation of the 20 turn commitment, DON'T MAKE PEACE EARLY. Keep your 20 turn commitment. Keep your reputation intact.

But get out of you mdps and your alliance immediately after 20 turns so you don't get sucked into unintended wars with other civs. You will get sucked into other confrontations if you forget to dump your mdps and alliances as soon as possible. Get out of them even if you continue warring with your enemy. Unless, of course, you consciously want to continue the commitment, which, in my experience, is doubtful after 20 turns. I find that after 20 turns the enemy tends to be highly damged and I can finish him off with no further help. Then I want my allies out of my territory before they come after me!

Hope this is of some help.

Comments / criticizisms / flames requested and encouraged.

 

[Mr. Civ 3]

Use Knights, and buy techs's from da comppu

 

[Cassius]

I think that you definitely need to wait until you get Knights before starting your war. (Also I think that using some of Xover's diplomatic advice was pretty good).

However, I think that the pillaging option is crucial if you don't have the military superiority to really roll through the Roman towns (and I think that maybe you'll need Cavalry, rather than knights to do that: so you need his saltpetre). Target the resources and luxuries that Cearsar needs to keep his poeple happy and make his troops by pillaging the roads that lead to them.

Having said this, I don't usually engage in an offensive war with an enemy that I don't have a Military Tech lead over. Sorry.

 

[Sir Yelof]

Most all the advice so far has been good. I'd like to expand the problem:

Can you expand in other directions besides the Romans, or are you hemmed in? One way you'll be able to keep up in tech is if you can start cranking out the money and buying techs on the cheap from other civs. Meanwhile building out your infrastructure will allow you to eventually compete in the later ages. But right now you're at a disadvantage and you need to fix that first.

If the Romans are your only direction, then you'll definitely be hard pressed to win this with your current forces. Your best hope if you go the war route is to push towards chivalry before attacking with those horsemen. Otherwise they're good for about one pillage each before they're wiped off the map.

You might consider switching to republic and trimming down your army if you have the temples/cathedrals in place to keep your population happy. Cash, cash, cash, is the key.

In one game as the Aztecs I cleaned out my continent and then found that I was hopelessly out-tech'd by the other civs once they made it to my continent. My solution? I disbanded nearly all of my (now ineffective) swordsmen, switched to republic (then later democracy) for more cash, and did nothing but build and improve cities and try to stay friendly with all the civs. Eventually I got a huge production advantage, and by picking up technology bread crumbs from the other civs (they'll sell them to you cheaper once everyone else has them) I eventually flipped the switch from 10% to 60-70% science and built my army back up from scratch.

 

[Kripes]

Did you read the article about Explorers? They can pillage and they will most likely not be asked to leave the other civ's territory.

 

[Jason Fox]

If you're weaker or losing then pillage away.

I was losing to the Russians and Persians (I was Americans) in what was, for me, a strictly defensive war. The only thing that kept me going was the Perians didn't have horses and the Russians didn't have iron (probably why they were attacking me.)

I sent two knights (hard to part with when you're losing a war) on a galley to Persia (pangea map, one big ring with water in center) and cut off all roads to capital and whatever else I could get before they were killed. One or two turns later they offered peace for a token payment, not the outrageous demands they had been making.

Not a well tested strategy but it worked that time.

 

[Mr Adeoye]

is it just me but is warlord level on civ 3 as difficult as king level on civ2 .Please tell me i'm not the only one that feels this .On civ 2 i whipped computers on prince level now i barely win on warlord level on civ 2.

 

[donsig]

Ten catapults (concentrated) with a few pikemen to protect them could help you take some Roman cities. It would be a slow process as you might need to bombard a city a few turns before you do enough damage to the defenders for your horsemen to attack safely and effectively. I would suggest building more catapults, some pikemen to go along to defend them and horsemen (for upgrade) while you wait for chivalry. Then upgrade your knights and go for it. (I'm assuming your home defense is enough to withstand a counter attack.) Just be patient, keep your catapults concentrated, pikemen and knights together. If you get a leader build an army (knights).

EDIT: When you do attack go for their resources as mentioned in an earlier post. Also, if you go the pillaging route it might be effective to send along some pikemen in an effort to keep your horsemen alive a little longer.