Advice on an FFH Mod-Mod

[Yoadm]

Hi guys,

I feel as if I've pretty much played normal FFH to death (at least in single player), and the challange is kindof gone. Can anyone advise me on what would be the best mod-mod to try? There are 3-4 main mod-mods (FF, Orbis, etc, right?), but each has its ups and downs, from what I've heard.

Any advice?

 

[tesb]

Before we can give you advice you could post what is most important to you:
-new content
-different mechanics
-better ai
...


also there was a similiar thread some time ago, but beware it is a bit outdated:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=334376&highlight=poll&page=2

Also most Modmods have a short introduction (which is mostly out of date), you should (nevertheless) read them.

An other note:
Both Wildmana and Rife will have big updates in the near future. For example Wildmana will have a totally reworked magic system:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=366841
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=367049
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=369745

(i. don't have an overview on 1.3 for Rife though)

 

[Pickly]

The stickied thread in this forum also lists out some smaller scaler modmods, though I wouldn't know whether you'd be interested in something that doesn't make as many changes.

 

[Yoadm]

Before we can give you advice you could post what is most important to you:
-new content
-different mechanics
-better ai
...


also there was a similiar thread some time ago, but beware it is a bit outdated:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=334376&highlight=poll&page=2

Also most Modmods have a short introduction (which is mostly out of date), you should (nevertheless) read them.

An other note:
Both Wildmana and Rife will have big updates in the near future. For example Wildmana will have a totally reworked magic system:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=366841
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=367049
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=369745

(i. don't have an overview on 1.3 for Rife though)

Thing is, I know there's Orbis, Wildmana, RIFE, but there's allso FF. Is FF separate? Are some of the 3 modmods based on FF (modmodmods..?). And I cant really find a comparison between them. WHich is better, where is the best AI, etc..?

 

[Jabie]

RifE is based on FF. Wildmana and orbis have borrowed some of the more popular civilizations. There should be a new version of RifE coming out shortly.

 

[tesb]

An opinion i often found is that wildmana is the most stable and has the best ai, while rife adds a ton of content. (I can't really say since i only use wildmana)
There is no real reason to use FF since Rife is based on FF like Jabie said.

I personally would use wildmana since my main concern is stability a decent ai and fast turn rate, also i am a contributor to wm so i am biased

The timing for your questions is a bit bad though since wildmana and rife will have major updates in the near future. (i guess the rife update will hit a bit earlier since wildmana will have a public beta)


...just flip a coin a give it a try

 

[Yoadm]

An opinion i often found is that wildmana is the most stable and has the best ai, while rife adds a ton of content. (I can't really say since i only use wildmana)
There is no real reason to use FF since Rife is based on FF like Jabie said.

I personally would use wildmana since my main concern is stability a decent ai and fast turn rate, also i am a contributor to wm so i am biased

The timing for your questions is a bit bad though since wildmana and rife will have major updates in the near future. (i guess the rife update will hit a bit earlier since wildmana will have a public beta)


...just flip a coin a give it a try

Regarding Wildmana, is it one module, or is it made out of a few mods (like Bannor +, Amurite +)?

 

[Segolenus]

All the modmods are a single module. All of them also have independent installers so you don't need base FfH.

If what you want is MOAR, I'd recommend RifE, since it adds a lot more features. (I'd wait a couple of days until 1.3 is out, though.) I personally prefer Orbis's economic/religious systems and tech tree, but it's not as well supported as RifE is. Generally speaking, WM/Orbis are more tweakmod-like than RifE.

 

[Randomness]

If you want to try one of the modmods right now, I think you should try either Wildmana or Orbis. RiFE is about to release a new version which should change a lot of the current content and will be followed by several other large versions. RiFE is also very difficult to play at the moment because the Barbarians (in particular the Animals) are completely over powered. However, I think that you should give all the modmods a try eventually and pick the one that you like best.

 

[Yoadm]

All the modmods are a single module. All of them also have independent installers so you don't need base FfH.

If what you want is MOAR, I'd recommend RifE, since it adds a lot more features. (I'd wait a couple of days until 1.3 is out, though.) I personally prefer Orbis's economic/religious systems and tech tree, but it's not as well supported as RifE is. Generally speaking, WM/Orbis are more tweakmod-like than RifE.

Err what I meant was: Is wildmana one mod-mod or do you need to independently download every civ module, like download amurite + independently or Bannor+? Or can you download it all in one module?

Another question, what do you mean MOAR?

Lastly, which mod has the best AI and is the most balanced/interesting in your opinion?

 

[Yoadm]

One more thing:

I currently have a very interesting multiplayer game going on normal FFH. Will the installation of the Wilamana mod-mod + patch prevent me from continuing the normal FFH multiplayer game with my friend?

 

[Segolenus]

Err what I meant was: Is wildmana one mod-mod or do you need to independently download every civ module, like download amurite + independently or Bannor+? Or can you download it all in one module?

Another question, what do you mean MOAR?

Lastly, which mod has the best AI and is the most balanced/interesting in your opinion?

WM is one modmod. All the modules are included.

By MOAR I meant more stuff. (Sorry about it.) As in, more civs, new gameplay mechanics, etc.

I don't really feel qualified to give my opinions on AI and balance issues, although the word is that Wildmana generally has the best AI.

One more thing:

I currently have a very interesting multiplayer game going on normal FFH. Will the installation of the Wilamana mod-mod + patch prevent me from continuing the normal FFH multiplayer game with my friend?

No it won't, unless you uninstall FfH. WM goes into a separate folder.

 

[tesb]

Err what I meant was: Is wildmana one mod-mod or do you need to independently download every civ module, like download amurite + independently or Bannor+? Or can you download it all in one module?

Download the base version (8.0) and install the latest patch and you are done.

I currently have a very interesting multiplayer game going on normal FFH. Will the installation of the Wilamana mod-mod + patch prevent me from continuing the normal FFH multiplayer game with my friend?

no, since wildmana goes into it's own folder and is therefore completely separate from the FFH files.

Lastly, which mod has the best AI and is the most balanced/interesting in your opinion?

I really can't say to be honest since i did not try the other modmods, but like i said wildmana is often accredited to have the best ai and is the most stable.


You can also try orbis and when rife 1.3 is released you try it and when wildmana 9.0 is released you switch to wildmana for a totally reworked magic system (akin to master of magic).

 

[hbar]

I've played all three; here are my opinions:

WildMana has the best AI, hands down. Many of the added features of WM are game options, so you can customize your experience based on what you want your game to play like.

Orbis has the most economic changes, and plays really differently from FfH. The AI is complete crap, though, and it is not very well supported.

Rife is like a burned out husk of time machine. Incredibly intriguing, lots of really cool toys, but broken past the point of playability. There will be a new version out this weekend (assuming the release date hasn't slipped again) that reportedly fixes a lot of the balance issues and adds new features, but there is always a rapid patch cycle after a major release, so long games might be impossible for a week or two.

Orbis wants to be my favorite. If someone could combine WM's AI with Orbis' everything else, I would never buy another game in my life.

RiFE is like a turducken. So much good stuff piled together, and yet still remains somewhat unappetizing.

WM is the most 'complete' feeling of the bunch, and is at the end of a patch cycle, so is relatively stable. It also has the fastest turn times of the three.

All three come pre-packaged in one download, and don't affect your FfH install at all.

 

[Randomness]

Don't knock turducken untill you try it... I've heard that it is acutally quite good. For that matter don't count RiFE out yet either, the first of several "change/fix everything patches" comes out today or tomorrow at latest.

 

[Valkrionn]

This will likely start a flame war, but there is a difference between good AI and forced AI. Yes, RifE is guilty of it too, but it is something we are steadily removing (something Snarko is quite good at, btw).

Wild Mana's AI is 'good' because it is guided by the hand like a blind boy. There is special AI code written for individual heroes (hardcoding in the DLL shouldn't happen. But that's just my own philosophy, so whatever), thousands of lines of python detailing what the AI should and should not build, and so on. AI is universally bad at Civ4... But it can be improved in ways that allows leeway, rather than a narrow path.

Edit: And before it's pointed out... Yes, I know Sephi has added plenty of real AI work too. That does not negate the fact that much of it is still forced behavior.


Also, currently yes, RifE has several things that may feel unbalanced. This will rapidly change, once 1.3 is out.

 

[hbar]

Honestly, the bar for the AI in FfH and its mods is so low, I don't care if its a blind boy so long as it has legs. I agree that hardcoding is usually bad, but in the case of individual heroes I have no qualms with it. FfH heroes are so unique that to try to paint all of them with a broad brush is foolish - emergent behavior is nice and all, but I'd rather face a Sphener with Command I-IV.

tl;dr - put your money where your mouth is and release 1.3 already !

 

[Valkrionn]

There has been significant AI work done already, and it will be even better (enough so that we can mostly remove the python hardcoding) in 1.4 and later.

And we are. Today.

 

[hbar]

Yeah, whatever. Your "Brittish" today pales in comparison to the real, American today.

EDIT: All in good fun, BTW. I have nothing but respect for the work you've done on RiFE.

 

[Valkrionn]

Yeah, whatever. Your "Brittish" today pales in comparison to the real, American today.

EDIT: All in good fun, BTW. I have nothing but respect for the work you've done on RiFE.

....I live in Florida, man.