Advice on axe-rushing Ragnar (yes, Ragnar)

[duckstab]

I'm playing a warlord-level game as Justinian. Since the Byzantine UU and UB both require horses I've been scouting the continent for them. I found one way off to the west and figured I was SOL, but a couple turns ago I sent a scout to the far north and lo and behold, there are some tundra-loving ponies next to one of Ragnar's cities:



That's me to the south of course. Anyhow, I'm thinking I should try to Axe rush him, since he's got no copper, and it'll be that much harder if he manages to hook up the horses himself and starts cranking out chariots. My question is, since I've typically waited for siege weapons before attempting to take down cities, how many axes do I need? Nidaros looks like the hardest target, up on a hill and defended by a couple archers with Guerilla I as shown. The other cities are defended by an Archer and Warrior apiece. Thanks for any advice...

 

[TheMeInTeam]

The rule is something between 2-3 axes/archer. Since the odds can screw you or be extremely favorable, it's hard to give advice past that.

On low difficulties swords are really good too, because a CR sword will beat an archer defending a city more than half the time unless it's on a hill or protective. Unfortunately, swords blow chunks vs axes, but vs nonmetal targets they're good.

Anyway just put up 2-3 axes/archer and you'll get there. Don't forget to take the AI whipping and production into account though.

 

[duckstab]

Thanks. As you can see from the screenshot I'm working on IW so I don't know if I'll have Iron or be able to hook it up in time to throw a few swords in.

 

[Airefuego]

TMIT's advice sounds good.

My additional tip would be - REALLY rush. His cities have cultural defenses already so you will need a lot of axes and fast.

Chop your forests like a madman and use the whip MERCILESSLY.

Spoiler :

It's best to whip axemen when they have a few hammers already put into the build, but STILL need a 2-pop whip to complete. This will ensure the overflow is nearly enough to complete a second axeman right there. (If this doesn't make sense you may like to read an article on whipping in the war academy )

 

[KaytieKat]

Hi

Given game date it wouldnt TECHNICALLY be a rush. And it depends on some things, do you want to wipe out Rags or just get the horseys? Things like game speed, how many cities you have and how many rags has can all make a diff.

To take out those three cities showing if it were me I would ASAP get 8-10 axes with maybe one or two spears (whip cities to bone if you have to key is getting it done as fast as you can before he gets walls up, or techs IW and iron shows up in his land somewhere.

Take out his cap first--taking an ai cap can REALLY cripple them it is looks like it would be a nice addition to your empire anyways, plus you really DONT want to make it a habbit of letting a fin leader have things like gold mines.

While your building army have workers build road up north to that goldmine so cities you take will be connected--that way you can whip xtra axes if needed or not just archers for garrisons. Im not sure what the def is on Nidaros but if it has a wall with 50% on a hill then you could lose a good chunk escpeially with unlucky rolls. But after cap falls it SHOULD be easy. as your big stack heads to Nidaros KEEP building more axes and keep them following your stack. After cap falls you can probably get by with just 5 or 6 cr axes per city then it a matter of how you want to keep going. depending on your economy keeping ALL the cities might be expensive so watch your income levels and just raise rinky dink cities you wont need. And if that copper on your borders is your ONLY sorce make sure you guard it fortify a cpl of units on it.

Taking the cap could get bloody count on at least one more archer getting whipped in turn it takes you to get there but after that it SHOULD get a lil easier. On warlord counterattacks not usually too brutal and axes who survive attack on Nidros most likely will get and extra CR promo which should make taking the other cities a little easier. But you do want that first big stack as fast as possible with replacements getting built and sent on continuously till it over.

Other tips--try to make one your units a medic. Give em combat one and then first chance they get at sure win let em take it then give that one medic so your stack can heal faster. Dont worry TOO much about garrisons. Just whip em from the cities you capture after they come out of revolt. And watch your income--keeping a stack in field along with getting new cities can get expensive FAST so make sure you can afford what you keep. If worse comes to worse after taking his cap and the horseys Rags SHOULD be willing to go for peace by that point and then you can just take a breather recover your econmy and then finish him off later.

Hope this helps a lil bit and good luck

Kaytie

 

[bestbrian]

Very well put, Kaytie.

I HATE Rags. He's an effin' psycho you definitely do not want anywhere near you - if you can afford to keep an army in the field go for a strategy of Total Viking Cleanising. And get CoL/Currency ASAP. Happy Hunting.

 

[sabo]

\
On low difficulties swords are really good too, because a CR sword will beat an archer defending a city more than half the time unless it's on a hill or protective. Unfortunately, swords blow chunks vs axes, but vs nonmetal targets they're good.

I was going to say the same thing, swords are much better against cities in the early stages if you don't have cats, I like to mix in some axes and spears just in case.

 

[djvandrake]

HEY! HEY! HEY! Don't pick on my ancestors!



Seriously though, the only city you should have a tough go at is the capital. Being on a hill with three archers and cultural defense is going to be VERY tough. When you have enough axes (or swords) to do it, bring two more.

 

[bestbrian]

HEY! HEY! HEY! Don't pick on my ancestors!



Seriously though, the only city you should have a tough go at is the capital. Being on a hill with three archers and cultural defense is going to be VERY tough. When you have enough axes (or swords) to do it, bring two more.

If you've got any of the Wolf-mods some Battering Rams would sure come in handy, also.

 

[Gumbolt]

Its called an axe rush as you rush out axes as soon as you hook up copper and roll over an AI early with 6-8+ axes. An early rush maybe by 2500-3000bc using 1-2 cities pending if you have copper in BFC. For me this generally means teching mining/bronze working as first tech orders.

As for that game knock out lots of axes and go. Make sure you send them all in one stack together so the Ai doesnt spawn 3-4 archers while your stack waits outside its city. If it a size 5 city the AI will whip an archer a turn.

In terms of techs I never research iron working as the Ai's normally tech this for me. Although on warlords the Ai will probably reach IW slower.

 

[kossin]

You seem to be quite late for an axe rush, having almost finished IW!
Don't axe rush just now, get swords or maybe catapults as well before attacking.

As previously mentionned, axe rush should be planned in the 2nd millenia and finished in the 2nd or 3rd millenia.

 

[General Ege]

Just passing through, thought this was quite comical as last time I saw Ragnar, he was attacking Justinian and I was being called on to put an end to the dilemma...

 

[ezwip]

Declare war and head toward the capital with your axeman. Cut the road. Turn around and take Uppsala. Hold your ground until you peace and spam a couple of settlers to encircle him.

 

[Bostock]

I HATE Rags. He's an effin' psycho you definitely do not want anywhere near you

(As you might guess from the below, I have fairly warm memories of rags overall.)

I never cease to be amazed by the sheer breadth of opinions people have on a large portion of the AI leaders -- there are a few for whom there is a general consensus, but outside of those (and not only outside those, really), I see quite conflicting views of their personalities and dangerousness every day on these forums. I think it goes to show how important the impact of the situations "on the ground" in the actual games people play out is... one person's memory of rags carries the imprint the rags with a fair-trade bonus and no border tensions, the other's memory comes from a rags pressed right up against them with a religion demerit, etc. And then there's the impact of difficulty levels, and plain old randomness.

 

[whitelaughter]

Looking at the map - you could just put a city on the tile south-east of the horses, and explore the river/coast so that your new city is linked to your empire.
You'll still need to crush Ragnar, but it'll be easier with a few mounted units, and the pressure on his border will let you rush his capital. And you do get a bonus to creating Settlers.

One day, someone is going to play the Byzantines and actually get horses early....maybe.

 

[bestbrian]

(As you might guess from the below, I have fairly warm memories of rags overall.)

I never cease to be amazed by the sheer breadth of opinions people have on a large portion of the AI leaders -- there are a few for whom there is a general consensus, but outside of those (and not only outside those, really), I see quite conflicting views of their personalities and dangerousness every day on these forums. I think it goes to show how important the impact of the situations "on the ground" in the actual games people play out is... one person's memory of rags carries the imprint the rags with a fair-trade bonus and no border tensions, the other's memory comes from a rags pressed right up against them with a religion demerit, etc. And then there's the impact of difficulty levels, and plain old randomness.

Since when is being reasonable, well spoken, and intelligent fun? Go peddle your open-minded thinking somewhere else, College Boy.

 

[mechaerik]

You have to take into account his pop points. when the AI gets desperate, he WILL whip out archers, so bring a huge stack. TMIT's right, 3-4 Axes for each archer. I also suggest bringing a scout with medic if you can, cause you want healing time at an absolute minimum. While you're healing your army, he could whip more archers.

 

[JonathanStrange]

You seem to be quite late for an axe rush, having almost finished IW!
Don't axe rush just now, get swords or maybe catapults as well before attacking.

As previously mentionned, axe rush should be planned in the 2nd millenia and finished in the 2nd or 3rd millenia.

Yeah, I was thinking virtually the same thing. Ironworking is a pretty expensive tech and not waiting when you're so close...

He could still very easily axe rush though; who knows when walls will get thrown up or additional defenders appear - delaying for swords or catapults may just a few too many turns away.