Advice on how to start with Boudica

[madscientist]

OK, as the title says, it's time for me to move onto the Celts and was looking at Boudica. She's Agressive and Charismatic, military is the way to go. I am trying at Emperor, marathon speed, standard size map. If I fail at several attempts I'll bump the difficulty down to Monarch.

So how does one start with her?? Mysticism and Hunting were great for Brennus, early religion and archery, go from there. But Boudica???

Some observations
1) She has no tech to help with food unless you ar elucky enough to get deer which still doesn't help since you are likely in a cold/tundra area anyway.
2) She is three techs from an Axeman (Mining/BW/Wheel) and without food that's a little long to get through.
3) Mysticism is great for an early religion but she doesn't need one, she get +1 happy from Charismatic and the extra _1 from monument which is easier to just whip out in subsequent cities.
4) No commerce helping techs at the beginning to help teching.
5) She can tech AH early, although a little slower since she does not have agriculture also. She can also get arhery right away.


All my starts have been pretty lackluster except the most recent where I had LOTS of floddplains and got horses and copper early. Still not the best land and cities got placed rather awkwardly because a barb citiy popped out in a bad spot.

So how does one play here. I am thinking of 2 strats

1) The old mining/BW/wheel route chopping out the settler and just dealing with slow city growth from lack of food.
2) Play what I have to start. first tech a food resource (fishing/Agriculture/AH), second archery (yeah I know alot of people don't like early archery, but I'll get if it's the right situation). Third Pottery and start cottage spamming.
3) Go the early religion route, them ramp up food/military. Make a very early attempt at the oracle and/or stondehenge.


Any suggestions are appreciated. I know what to do once setup early, she's just not easy to start with (similar to Isabella).

BTW: In 5 random start with here I have yet to get a start with seafood in the capitals BFC!

 

[Sjaramei]

I hate those starting techs too

Thats why i almost never play Boudica or Brennus. But i think you can pull out a decent start without fish if you have a farm resource and some unforested hills/river grassland.

I would do my standard Worker first-Settler at pop 2 Build, unless i only have slow food. (Cows/Pigs/Sheeps) Then i think i would build warrior and grow to size 2 before worker.

Just play from what you are given on the map

2) Play what I have to start. first tech a food resource (fishing/Agriculture/AH), second archery (yeah I know alot of people don't like early archery, but I'll get if it's the right situation). Third Pottery and start cottage spamming.

Those starting techs could warrant archers quick while you settle some good commerce/production spots before metals. (Archers do ok for barb defense, just don't wait too long to get metal )
But i'm not sure about pottery that soon, i would wait until after BW.

 

[Mr. Z]

Here's my general strat for a war-mongering game:

On Emperor Normal speed, I've been having trouble getting an early (pre-catapult) rush together. Even with aggressive civs like Boudica. It seem even when I build up an army of 8-10 axemen pretty quickly, I'm still facing 5 defenders in the city I try to take. So I can try pillaging, or taking a less desireable city, but a failed rush this early on Emperor usually spells doom. But when I concentrate on expansion and economy first, I can usually win.

So I tend to get worker techs first, then tech toward Alphabet, then beeline Construction while building axes/swords/spears. Mostly ignore wonders (sometimes I'll grab Stonehenge). Probably have 5-6 cities by this point, most of them cottaged to try to keep the economy up. Then attack after I have a few catapults and more on the way. It's important at this point to concentrate on getting techs that will help the economy - CoL, Monarchy, Currency.

This strat doesn't fit in well with Boudica's starting techs, but I don't find that to be a big deal. At least you're half way to archery which you'll often need for barb defence, since you'll be somewhat weak early on (I'd delay getting it a bit though). And you have Mysticism for Stonehenge, which you can usually afford to build, since you aren't concentrating on building lots of axemen early.

Oh and watch out for Shaka if he's nearby. If you are weak early, he will attack.

Z

 

[blau0010]

I've actually been playing as Boudica the last few games. I'm a Prince level player so it's overall easier, but even with Charismatic trait I still try for the early religion. Then hit up food and go for military. Sure, you're not going to get a quick axe rush out of the deal, but while you're getting Mine>BW>IW you will have Barracks and Dun in your production city.

The nice thing about the UU is that you don't need to be picky about what metal you have around you. Soon enough you have swords with shock running around, and probably quite a few since your production city will have a lot of workable tiles with the added happiness.

I know with her traits you want to hit up war as early as possible and her techs make you wait, but once you get 2-3 cities up, you're in a lot better shape.

 

[blau0010]

Here's my general strat for a war-mongering game:
This strat doesn't fit in well with Boudica's starting techs, but I don't find that to be a big deal. At least you're half way to archery which you'll often need for barb defence, since you'll be somewhat weak early on (I'd delay getting it a bit though). And you have Mysticism for Stonehenge, which you can usually afford to build, since you aren't concentrating on building lots of axemen early.
Z

I'm playing at a much lower level than Emperor, but when I've played at those levels, getting wonders seem more and more impossible. It seems to me that you almost need to focus on getting the Gallic Swordsman up and hope that the nearby cities end up building the wonder for you to take. Obviously at Prince I can get whatever wonder I want without difficulty, but even at Monarch it seems that I had to just pretend like they didn't show up on my build tree.

 

[slobberinbear]

Boudica is, to me, an early Classical age force.

I would get an early religion (if possible on Emperor -- you better have a commerce tile) and build some scouts to grab as many goody huts as possible. You'll need them. In the meantime, I would research broadly, getting most of the low-end techs except fishing + sailing (unless you have seafood, of course). Archery is worth getting for the Celts due to the Dun. With a Dun + Barracks, you can crank out Guerilla II archers which are great for hill city defense, stack defense, and fogbusting.

If you have stone or a lot of wood to chop, Stonehenge is handy for Charismatic Boudica, and of course fits her Celtic heritage.

Once you have your key worker techs (based on your map), assuming you have a semi-close neighbor, go for iron working and build about 10-12 Gallic Warriors with the Guerilla II promotion and take him out.

You will need to get your economy addressed too. Make sure you get a lot of commerce tiles worked or cottage like crazy.

 

[Sjaramei]

I'm playing at a much lower level than Emperor, but when I've played at those levels, getting wonders seem more and more impossible. It seems to me that you almost need to focus on getting the Gallic Swordsman up and hope that the nearby cities end up building the wonder for you to take. Obviously at Prince I can get whatever wonder I want without difficulty, but even at Monarch it seems that I had to just pretend like they didn't show up on my build tree.

AI still sucks at wonders on Emperor. If i really want Pyramids i can get them almost every game, but chances are good i will be rushed with swords if i do it
(Aggressive AI on )

So i only build wonders if i have Stone/Marble around. (I'm almost never industrious) Else they get too costly and my army too weak

 

[Falk]

I'm playing as Boudica right now and the first thing I figured is that it sucks if your only enemy is a Creative one. I've run into Mister Zara and despite going for military very early (first religion, then military, skipped the food stuff), I was only able to take two minor cities. His capitol and second city had to high def boni from culture already.

So you should really consider what enemies you encounter before deciding what to do. If all other nations that show up during the first turns are either Creative or Protective you better build some cottages and tech to construction asap.

Then again, I'm not a rush specialist, so maybe you can do better than me.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

As usual, my analysis of any leader focuses on finding synergies.

I begin by focusing on the traits. The main implications of Aggressive are the cheap barracks and the bias towards melee units. The implications of Charismatic are faster promotions and extra happy.

Put together, and this adds up to moderately studly warriors. Not quechas, to be sure, but they are better than their brethren in other civs; consequently, you can delay military concerns by a corresponding amount.

Charisma also gives you +happy. You take advantage of that by having larger cities than the other guy (vertical, rather than horizontal, expansion).

Addressing the techs - Hunting plus Mysticism screams Scout plus Meditation. On lower levels, or smaller maps, this is viable. But at higher levels, you won't beat a civ that also researches the same religious tech, and finishing second in that race is brutal to you development.

Assuming that the map puts no special demands on me, I'd still want that scout as quickly as I can get him out the door, then switch over to a worker, researching for growth first, then production, then military. Scout Worker Warrior Warrior Settler Stonehenge, or thereabouts. Maybe a barracks in there somewhere, depending on the timeline (I've not counted this out).

 

[madscientist]

As usual, my analysis of any leader focuses on finding synergies.

I begin by focusing on the traits. The main implications of Aggressive are the cheap barracks and the bias towards melee units. The implications of Charismatic are faster promotions and extra happy.

Put together, and this adds up to moderately studly warriors. Not quechas, to be sure, but they are better than their brethren in other civs; consequently, you can delay military concerns by a corresponding amount.

Charisma also gives you +happy. You take advantage of that by having larger cities than the other guy (vertical, rather than horizontal, expansion).

Addressing the techs - Hunting plus Mysticism screams Scout plus Meditation. On lower levels, or smaller maps, this is viable. But at higher levels, you won't beat a civ that also researches the same religious tech, and finishing second in that race is brutal to you development.

Assuming that the map puts no special demands on me, I'd still want that scout as quickly as I can get him out the door, then switch over to a worker, researching for growth first, then production, then military. Scout Worker Warrior Warrior Settler Stonehenge, or thereabouts. Maybe a barracks in there somewhere, depending on the timeline (I've not counted this out).

Thakyou for the advice. I have already finished my Boudica game but here is how I ended up with a start that won. Marathon speed, standard size, Monarch difficulty

1) First city was in a forrested area, no sea tiles. Went for Polytheism from thet get go (I founded Hinduism). I believe I also popped Masonry real early. My warrior was enough to tell me I was on a snaky continent with Muhmed II. Also expanded the capital to the happy cap fast.
2) Teched AH/mining/BW. Found horses nearr Muhmed than myself, copper between horses and My capital. I chopped out a settler fast to claim the horses (Stone and Floodplains too) then a second settler for a costal city that claimed copper and elephants. I had effectively cut off Muhmed from any military resources (I found out later I also cut him off from iron).
3) I chopped the remainder of my forrests for the Great wall, teched IW plus worker techs.
4) ONce I had all this setup I buildup and rushed Muhmed, taking all his land (several cities had several cottages so they almost payed for themselves) excpet one island city which I took centuries later. Took one more barb city to south on a isthmus locking up all the continent for myself.
5) Got 2 great spies (1 scotland yard, the other I settled) before I got the prophet for the hindu shrine.

Edned up with a Domination win.

It took me a while to figure out but I think the key to Boudica was early religion, rapid growth of cities to happy cap, delayed rush.

Thanks to all for the replies.

 

[uncarved block]

Yeah, the big thing to remember with Boudica seems to be that patience is still a virtue. Even more than the Romans, she teaches you to avoid the pitfalls of over expansion due to early military victory.

Without seeing the map, I'm curious why you didn't take a run at the Pyramids instead of GW. Whenever Barbs seem like less of an issue- and snaky continents fit that bill, usually- I've been avoiding the GW like the plague, because early Great Spies seem like a waste. This is on Noble (should be jumping to Prince soon), but from what I've read here, the Pyramids are no longer a huge priority for the AI, and more within reach, especially if you have Stone. Just asking a better player for the thought processes

 

[madscientist]

Yeah, the big thing to remember with Boudica seems to be that patience is still a virtue. Even more than the Romans, she teaches you to avoid the pitfalls of over expansion due to early military victory.

Without seeing the map, I'm curious why you didn't take a run at the Pyramids instead of GW. Whenever Barbs seem like less of an issue- and snaky continents fit that bill, usually- I've been avoiding the GW like the plague, because early Great Spies seem like a waste. This is on Noble (should be jumping to Prince soon), but from what I've read here, the Pyramids are no longer a huge priority for the AI, and more within reach, especially if you have Stone. Just asking a better player for the thought processes

Your forgetting the other benefit of the GW, 100% GG production within cultural borders. Plus the Celtic UU/UB and the hill defense, you can rackup alot of GG points with a few defenders on a hill city within your cultural borders. Plus it is cheaper than the pyramids which I did go after late but lost out to of all people Shaka. I was running a CE with very few specialists so representation was not appealing, Monarchy came easily enough, the issue was early Universal Sufferage which I could wait until democracy.

Granted, once Mehmed was gone the GW's benefits were nulled, I did get an extra GG from fighting Shaka on my continent. Scottland yard + settled Great spy were great for esiponage (I think 36 EPs in capital with a courthouse, prior to constituion and jails). I also popped a third great spy which allowed me to steal corporation and divine right from Louis, so think of that great spy as "bulbing" 2 full techs. Those three Great Spies defeinitely outweighed any Great engineers I could have popped.

Finally, the Great Wall was a life saver as far as barbarians as I unfortunately got one of those random events about rampaging HUNS near my capital with very few defenders. On the corner of my continent were 5 horse archers who could have actually overrun my capital fast, but were kept out by the GW. I eventually built a spearman and picked them off one by one. So the Great Wall also prevents those unfortunate barbian random events from catching you off guard.

 

[uncarved block]

Ah, so the differences can largely be chalked up to difficulty level-- something for me to keep in mind moving up. On Noble, I pretty much fight every war on the AI's turf, so that doesn't matter; by the time I get to Corp and Divine Right, the AI often doesn't have any tech worth stealing; and, barring a random event, Barbs just aren't a big issue unless there's tons of land on all sides (say, on the Oasis map.) Definitely sounds as if I'm ready for the next level. Thanks for the reply.

 

[madscientist]

Ah, so the differences can largely be chalked up to difficulty level-- something for me to keep in mind moving up. On Noble, I pretty much fight every war on the AI's turf, so that doesn't matter; by the time I get to Corp and Divine Right, the AI often doesn't have any tech worth stealing; and, barring a random event, Barbs just aren't a big issue unless there's tons of land on all sides (say, on the Oasis map.) Definitely sounds as if I'm ready for the next level. Thanks for the reply.

One more thing about the Great Wall. It is the only Ancient Wonder that does not go obsolete (Technically the pyramids don't, but they have no bonus once you tech fascism). You always get that 100% GG in cultural borders even during Modern era warfare not that it's a good idea to have enemy tanks in your lands).