[NFP] [advice] Which beliefs should I pick in this situation?

kaspergm

Deity
Joined
Aug 19, 2012
Messages
5,694
I would like to have some advice from some of the more experienced and competitive players on a game I started yesterday. I'm still fairly new to playing in Deity, and this game turned out quite differently than my normal games.

Settings: Indonesia, "Continents and islands" map, all-standard settings (standard size, normal speed, disasterlevel 2, 8 civs, reduced city states to 12 I think).

Background: I roll a start that's not too inspiring and actually figure I will not play this game through, but then on something like turn 3, I roll a relic in a goody hut, and obviously things look a little but more interesting. I get Religious Settlements for the free settler, and shortly after encounter Germany as my nearest neighbor. I get the opportunity to steal a settler from him, so I DoW, take the settler, spam a number of archers and warriors and also take one of his towns, and while I'm taking that one he settles another town behind that one which then flips to me from loyalty. However I can't take Aachen from him (walls + archers do too much damage), so I make peace with him. Seeing that Stonehenge is not build at this point (probably the Real Strategy mod that messes things up here, I activated that for the first time), I decide to go for it just for fun, and actually manage to build it. So this is my current situation:
Spoiler :
upload_2020-7-19_11-23-23.png


Question 1: Should I found my religion now, or should I wait 3 turns? Having build Stonehenge, I can found my religion now, which will give me second picks on all beliefs. One religion has been founded (Feed The World, Mission Houses), but that still leaves several of the tasty founder beliefs. However, I don't have a holy site build yet, but will have one finished in 3 turns, so will it be better to risk someone taking one of the nice beliefs, but wait to have my second city convert for free, allowing me much faster spread?

Question 2: Which founder belief should I take? I see three viable options:
  • Choral Music: Lots of free culture, this will make building early holy sites much more viable. I lean towards this one.
  • Work Ethics: Production is king, but my area doesn't have the best terrain for holy site adjacencies, most of them only offering +1 or +2 bonus, so I reckon this won't be that worthwhile. I could go for the Itzikushima Shrine (wonder from mod, adds standard adjacency bonus to holy sites from coast), which would synergize well with my civ ability, but will be a very long term investment, as I'll need to build first a holy site in my capital and then build the wonder, which currently says 44 turns.
  • Jesuit Education: I have a quite high Faith Per Turn output, so I could benefit from this belief, but my plan is to try to get a medieval golden age (I missed classical golden age, unfortunately) and get Monumentality, so that would be my main use for faith, so this would not pay off before much later.
Question 3: Which other belief should I take? Should I secure a "good" worship building (and if so, which one?), or should I go for something like Holy Orders to allow me to enhance and spread quickly (Congo is one of my neighbors, so I could potentially benefit from an aggressive early spread), or something else (Crusades, and aim to kill Germany off completely in medieval era, for instance)?

I'd love to hear some suggestions and reasons for them.
 
I think you answered your own Question #2, Choral Music was the favourite on these forums too until last update. I think this will serve you better than the others as it save you using a district slot for a TS if you already have a Holy Site. The bugged work ethic is a fragile thing, one setback and your citizens just give up on the whole idea :lol:. And Jesuit education is a nice one if you have lots of faith, but not much else to spend it on, which you do - settlers and maybe boats someday right? Also spreading beliefs that require a HS to Kongo just seems like good gaming to me. They would in theory use Jesuit Education to great advantage but that assumes the AI knows how to get and spend faith as Kongo.....

Question 1:So because Choral Music is now a top AI pick you may not want to wait even a few turns to found your religion, if others are earning GPP.

Q3: for other beliefs one I often like (but don't see mentioned by others) is Holy Order, for cheaper apostles. If I have a plan (and the ability) to use faith for a bunch of different things this helps a lot to stretch out the Faith currency.

the T3 building is the belief I care least about unless I can get mosques. I usually take stupas as by the time I get them up my cities are looking for extra amenities anyway.

You might wait for further advice if you want to go for a RV - I'm sort of assuming you're happy just to have a religion and a nice early conquest and haven't really picked a victory type?
 
However, I don't have a holy site build yet, but will have one finished in 3 turns, so will it be better to risk someone taking one of the nice beliefs, but wait to have my second city convert for free, allowing me much faster spread?
What does the great people screen say, how close are the others to founding? Much better if you can wait for the Holy site if at all possible.
 
Wait for three turns, then get more holy sites. But keep an eye on AI GP points.

Choral music is good since your unique unlocks along the culture tree and not with frigates.
 
Thanx for the input, I ended up waiting the three turns (no one founded in the meantime), grabbed Choral Music and Holy Orders, started spreading into Kongo, and claimed Tithe for a very solid bump in GPT. Still not what I'll call a great game, I'm suffering heavily on production, but at least I'm holding up in science and gold, and hanging on in culture.
 
Thanx for the input, I ended up waiting the three turns (no one founded in the meantime), grabbed Choral Music and Holy Orders, started spreading into Kongo, and claimed Tithe for a very solid bump in GPT. Still not what I'll call a great game, I'm suffering heavily on production, but at least I'm holding up in science and gold, and hanging on in culture.

Does the AI have any vulnerable coastal cities? Maybe you could faith buy a decent navy and make in-roads somewhere.
 
You can build an IZ in the middle of your cities (I founded anotherone between Majapahit and Dortmund for this) and reach all but Palembang with it. The factory + oil power plant would generate a nice amount of production and energy for your whole empire.
 
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