AENIGMA01 - C3C Training on Monarch - Conq/Dom

[dmanakho]

It is not always easy to understand Brother Bede, but you will learn to enjoy his style

Questions:
What do you mean by "buying on credit'?

In other words paying GPT

Is it worth it to buy IW from zulus? (pricey, but then we can get swordsman.)

Just don't get us broke.
If Zulus only the ones who know IW it will be over-priced. Wait until at least another tribe knows it and we will pay much less. We won't be able to produce swords in quite some time even if we had iron nearby, so it wont make difference if we buy IW now or 15 turns from now. (edit:although one may argue we have to know in advance where iron is, i still prefer to wait for better deals)

Yellow 1 east... What do you mean by "link up the fog by the fish"? What fog?

I believe in current context fog - black uncovered tiles. So if you put city 1tile E, we should be able nicely place another city by the northern fish.

And I'd rather go 1 NE, since that will:
Free clear of a marsh.
More hills to use (later on)
Get the fish when we expand border/connect borders.

You can not settle there. Settlers can not clear marsh. You have to use worker to clear it first and then settle.

Settle on Red if not taken. Question. What if settling on red will have one of our squares on their border (if they have a city near there)? Still do it? But we lose that square...?

Don't worry about that. You can use very aggressive city placement on monarch level and even our city overlaps with Aztecs its okay.
Less time will it take for our archers to raze that city

edit: Usually i am a big proponent of horsemen only armies, but with the map we have, horses won't have an extra movement, therefore i suggest on making stacks of swords instead when available. We will have to uncover areas north though may be there will be more plains and grasslands

 

[ÆnigmÆffect]

dman,

Cool. Thanks for the insight. Didn't think about horsemen aren't as useful here, since it's mostly mountains.

So in the future (or rather, in general), for trades, is it better to do part gpt, part treasury? Or always opt for money from the treasury first? What about when selling techs (if we're ever actually UP, and want to get money).

 

[dmanakho]

It's hard to explain... you should just feel what is right to do... gamble sometimes... make scientific guesses on what AIs are researching or will be researching next... etc...
Personally, i try not to pay more than 4-6gpt in AA and pay cash if possible.
If you have money in treasury to pay cash - do it, always avoid paying gpt, unless you have a monster AI nearby that you want to keep happy.

TR01 SG has a good example where I tried to explain my every thought when i pulled the big trade.

 

[ÆnigmÆffect]

Quick note that I think we all forgot. We build Javelin Throwers instead of Archers... Should we still build them? They take more resources (same as Swordsman, I think)?

 

[dmanakho]

Oh, we are playing Maya...
I totally forgot that.

I'd really hate to have despotic GA with only handful of cities.

What do we do team?

We would need few anyways to do slave huntins in barbarian villages and may be later to generate GA. But as for the killing of Aztecs... that i am not sure.

 

[Zavior]

Lets save our ga. We can trigger it when we are in monarchy/republic.

 

[ÆnigmÆffect]

Hey, Zavior! I wasn't sure if you left and not coming back! I felt so bad for missing you the first time around! (you're up next, btw).

Okay, turns:

Well, what a difference one turn makes!

Turn 8 - 2150
Big food bonuses top at top right (fish and wheat on grass), and dead west (fish and cow on grass, but very far from us).
Settler still gunning for red spot.
Zulu want 9gpt and the wheel for IW. I decline.

Turn 9 - 2110
Well, Zulu just got the wheel. Dammit. Aztec got Alphabet.
More exploring.
Thought about changing warrior to something else, but don't know what. Stuck with warrior.
I'm thinking we may need to do some fast land grab up NE (will show dotmap after finishing turn 10), since there's a decent spot up there.

Turn 10 - 2070
Nothing much. More exploring.

Okay. Uploading map and save. Need someone to dotmap this...

We should settle on one of those brown dots N of capitol as higher priority than yellow (I moved it one E for now. Need more thought).

The left dot is by lakes. Will that give us fresh water? If it does, will we get 3 food in center city due to agri? The top dot gives us more grassland, but no access to fish initially. The bottom right dot gets fish right away.

I uncovered the wheat on turn 8, but I've moved the settler already at that point. I'm thinking we won't be able to get any of the brown dots, since Zulu will likely gun for it (well, we might be able to get one of them, since I doubt they'll eat up all three. Hopefully they won't overlap the wheat.

Note far west has a cow and fish. But that's *really* far away.

Roster:
Bede
TCS1
ÆnigmÆffect Just finished
Zavior Up
dmanakho On deck
Tubby Tower
DBear

Save:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/AE01_AE_2070BC.SAV

 

[dmanakho]

I would settle on brown dot near the lake.
Zulu's capital is pop 1 so unless they already have settler heading there we should beat them to that spot.

 

[Zavior]

Just got it downloaded, but going to play tomorrow after school.

 

[ÆnigmÆffect]

I hope ~10 turns is fast enough to catch that spot (5 to make, 5 or so to move to there).

On a completely side note, those dots are supposed to be red, but colour loss in changing to 256 made them brown.

 

[Tubby Rower]

So no tech deals, AEnigma? We have to meet more civs to get the price down.

The settler could be on the SW "red" dot in 9 turns (5 to make 4 moves due N) and settle on the 10th.

BTW...The picture could be saved in another format. "jpg" would give you more colors. and "gif" qould change the pallet to only include the colors that are in the picture.

 

[Bede]

Nice progress AE. We're getting there.

Doh, I forgot about the pig stickin' Javelina Thrower, too. So it's horsemen or swords.

And here is the dilemma: should we buy IW and not have iron we may not have the coin to buy HBR when it comes up. We know where the horses are, but the terrain does not lend itself to mounted attacks in any direction......

Note on trading strategy: Buying for gpt works well when you can get the gpt back in the follow-on deals. At this stage of the game when the other guys' income is mostly from busting barb camps they usually don't have the gpt available to make a purchase that way. Unless you can broker a deal for a really high value techs and can get the gpt you just paid from the fella to whom you just paid it before he can put it in his pocket. Tough to do on a small map where everybody knows everybody else though.

The best of the three NE spots is the by the lake.

Worker note: Worker at Copan should be cutting a forest for the barracks. It will be productive enough with the irrigated plains and one forest to produce 30sh troops in five or so.

 

[Zavior]

Turn1: Zulus boot us. I decide to move the existing settler back.

Turn2: Nothing

Turn3: Settler ready next turn.

Turn4: Settler to red spot.

Turn5: Movement, going to road that horse.

 

[Zavior]

Turn1: Zulus boot us. I decide to move the existing settler back.

Turn2: Nothing

Turn3: Settler ready next turn.

Turn4: Settler to red spot.

Turn5: Movement, going to road that horse.

Turn6: Found palencum, spot violet border in the north.

Turn7: Found tikal. Settler ready. No contact yet.

Turn8: Trade IW for 157 gold, from the incas.

Turn9: Incas boot us.

I think I played turn, where there was only movement, so I dont have log about it. This (should) make it 10 turns. Just to be sure.

 

[Tubby Rower]

Well it looks like we at least have split up the Aztec land grab. All 3 of the known civs know HBR. Too bad we only have 14 g so we can't buy it right now. Although we do have +14gpt. I'm wondering how much they'll want for it.

Shouldn't we have some sort of military presence on the Aztec border? I'd hate to see those cities taken without a fight!

 

[ÆnigmÆffect]

Just took a look at the save. We should send one of the scouts to the east, instead of both going to west? But that's a lot of backtracking...

Zulu's missing alphabet, but they don't have much money to trade with...

We gotta watch the capital and settler production. Perhaps once we get some decent land, it will be a great production town.

We should figure out where else to settle, and start thinking about building up troops. However, we have NO iron... Couple of our towns are close, but we need to start a war to get it...

It might be time to mass troops after we finish the next settler (still have not decided a place to settle the next settler yet). We're starting to get behind in tech for brokering also. A little lost on what to do...

 

[dmanakho]

Looks like Captain Enigma is doing bad job updating roster
I've almost missed this one.

dmanakho - up


This is 3rd game i am up. So if not today then tomorrow night...

Wasn't I going to watch Stargate-SG1/Atlantis tomorrow night...

Oh well.. just another past-midnight civ session....

@Zavior: Would you please also put dates along the turn nubmers when you post your report. It makes much easier to follow the game.

 

[ÆnigmÆffect]

Roster:
Bede
TCS1
ÆnigmÆffect
Zavior Just finished
dmanakho Up
Tubby Tower On deck
DBear

 

[dmanakho]

I've loaded the save but haven't started the game yet.

Can we talk about plan for the new city locations and trades.
I can buy Alphabet from Incas for 6gpt and 11Gold. Zulus don't have alphabet so i have a chance to trade Alphabet for HBR.
On other hand we are better of building chariots for a while since those are cheaper and once we have few chariots we can buy HBR and mass upgrade. On another hand if we will have to pay for HBR we may have no money for upgrades... So... I think we better trade now while we have an opportunity.

Here comes the map.. What do we think on cities proposed?
The gray dots are quetionable. Marsh would be better place, but we don't have workers to clean it. So we can settle on tile NE

 

[Tubby Rower]

I like the red X (obvious), the red dot, then the green dot. We probably won't get to the yellow dot if this path is followed.

I'd say go for the trades. We're starting to get behind in techs and at least we'll be able to build some horses (to go one movement over all of the mountains )