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Affirmative Action

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by luiz, Aug 1, 2003.

  1. luiz

    luiz Trendy Revolutionary

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    Here in Brazil to get in a University you have to pass on an exam called vestibular. The vestibulares at the public universities(the free ones) are pretty hard, specially for the most desired courses(e.g.: med school, law school, engeneering, etc).
    Next week I'll make the exam for the Rio de Janeiro State University. However, my chances of beign are approved are close to zero, simply because Im white! :mad:
    More than 50% of the students of that university must be black or mixed. There is also a percentage reserved for people who studied at public schools(I didnt, they suck big time in Brazil)
    The black-rights NGOs that support this claim that the white population of Brazil has a debt with the black population that must be paid. Since I didnt enslave anyone, I dont think I have a debt. I also think that this is offensive to blacks, because it implies that black people cannot compete with the whites and need external help.

    I know that affirmative action exists in many countrys around the globe and would like to know what the OT posters think of this.
     
  2. Ohwell

    Ohwell Deity

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    I agree with you luiz, affirmative action is racist and offensive to all parties.
     
  3. MarineCorps

    MarineCorps Explosion!

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    It's kida ironic that when ever some on of the minorty is discr. agaist everyone cries foul yet when a person in the majority is discrimated agaisnt by a minorty and he complains every one calls the majorty person a racist
     
  4. bioartist

    bioartist aspiring epidemiologist

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    I agree whole-heartedly. Due to the fear that I might be denied admission because I'm white, I will refrain from specifying my race in my college applications. Though it doesn't sound like that's an option in your country luiz :(
     
  5. Peri

    Peri Vote early and vote often

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    Well if governments and peoples had not actively discriminated against non white people for umpteen centuries then this rather clumsy form of remedial action would not be necessary
     
  6. Gothmog

    Gothmog Dread Enforcer

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    While I don't think there should be affirmative action based on race, I do think there should be affirmative action based on class (at public universities at least)
     
  7. luiz

    luiz Trendy Revolutionary

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    You are right bioartist, its not an option. If one refrains from specifying his race he is considered non-black and non-mixed.
     
  8. zorven

    zorven 12,000 Suns

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    Affirmative action based on race is just racism. If there is going to a system to help the underprivelaged, it should be based on income and / or wealth.
     
  9. luiz

    luiz Trendy Revolutionary

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    I can live with that. However this might result on people with not enough instuction beign admitted in the University and than failing at the first period(It is happening in the Rio de Janeiro State University)
     
  10. Gothmog

    Gothmog Dread Enforcer

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    Yes, this happens in America too. Though it points to a failure of the public educational system. So there needs to be a fix at the university level. For example in America there is first year English and math. If students cannot test into these classes they take a more remedial level class (subject A English, precalculus) either at the university or at a local community college. This can even be done the summer before instruction starts.

    If one needs even more they could be provisionally accepted while they do whatever instruction they need to test into the lowest level university classes.
     
  11. Lostman

    Lostman Thread Killer

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    I think it's funny. Am I the only one insulted FOR the black community? Without programs like this, can they not get jobs? Can't they do it for themselves? Whites will be a minority in the next 10 years in the U.S. Will we then get to take advantage of such programs?
     
  12. bioartist

    bioartist aspiring epidemiologist

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    No, you're not the only one. I just didn't mention it cause I thought it was an obvious insult to the black community and would sound redundant to say so. But perhaps I shouldn't make such broad assumptions and speak my mind fully next time :)
     
  13. SeleucusNicator

    SeleucusNicator Diadoch

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    Well, it is not as bad in the United States. Quotas such as "50% of students must be of this or that race" are strictly illegal here; but schools can (and most do) use race as a deciding factor. They use "diversity" as an excuse and claim that education is enhanced by having people from different backgrounds (read: African-Americans) represented in the school.

    To state my objections here would be highly repetative, as virtually all posters here share those views and countless many more will share them later in the topic.
     
  14. Gothmog

    Gothmog Dread Enforcer

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    For a large number of reasons, the black community has a larger component of the economically disadvantaged than the white community. For one, it is simply a fact that racism still exists in this country (and I assume in Brazil too) and accounts for part of the reason why they are economically disadvantaged as a group. Thus there is no reason for you to feel insulted for them. All they need is a level playing field.

    The main reason why I think affirmative action should be based on class and not race is not because I don’t think it is harder to succeed as a black person in this country, I think that it is. It is because I think that disadvantaged people of all races deserve a hand up and because I think that economically privileged children of any race already have a huge head start.

    America will grow strong if the best and brightest of all races are given opportunity to succede.

    The number of each race that find’s its self in a disadvantaged position is roughly proportional to the difficulty for that race to succeed, i.e. there are a higher proportion of disadvantaged blacks because there are additional forces at work against them in society besides poverty. Thus class is a good way to administer affirmative action.
     
  15. luiz

    luiz Trendy Revolutionary

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  16. MarineCorps

    MarineCorps Explosion!

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    After all what would have happened if we discrimated agaisnt Albert Eistien because he was Jewish? Probly still fight WWII for another 10 years.
     
  17. onejayhawk

    onejayhawk Afflicted with reason

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    I was interested yesterday to hear a radio discussion of Richard Nixon. After an interminable period going over Watergate, they finally moved onto how he governed. Just a few points.
    He appointed influential, liberal Supreme Court Chief Justice Warren.
    He instituted wage and price controls to curb inflation and unemployment, when both were near 3%.
    Most relevant here, he was the one that put teeth in the antidiscrimination laws. In fact he personally, or his drafter, coined the term "affirmative action" in an executive order.

    In spite of the recent Supreme Court decision, and in part because of it, affirmative action is dying out in the US. In a sense that is because the debt that was owed, has been paid.

    It is ironic that what is perceived to be the center of power is discriminated against because they are assumed to have hidden resources, when in fact they often have none. Or perhaps it is that they have none but high expectations of themselves. Others find it easy to turn a safety net into a hammock, but these people are compelled by their character to do for themselves. Most people call them conservatives.

    J
     
  18. MummyMan

    MummyMan Emperor

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    Affirmative action is reverse discrimination, which basically defeats the purpose of action against racism.
     
  19. sysyphus

    sysyphus So they tell me

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    The solution is therefore to put an end to racial discrimination (or in more pragmatic terms, immesnely reduce), not create more of it. Two wrongs don't make a right.
     
  20. Ohwell

    Ohwell Deity

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    This is one of the issues where I feel isolated from my generally liberal stance and other liberals. I cannot understand how some of liberals who I generally agree with can push for this racist action. It not only is putting the advantage to minorities, but also making it seem like they need help. It actually encourages racism, imo.
     

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