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Afgnan Quran Burning Protests

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by LordRahl, Feb 23, 2012.

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  1. Tycho

    Tycho AFK Forum Warrior

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    Yes, because the deaths of thousands of people in the Holy Land was justified by the fact that the Muslims had closed Jerusalem to the Christian pilgrims. That would be like us closing Mecca up to them, so that they could not pray to their god. I wonder how many people would be surprised if they started a jihad against the occupiers because of that.
     
  2. Ajidica

    Ajidica High Quality Person

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    Pray tell, what were 'the Muslims' doing that warrented the rape and pillage of Jerusalem and Antioch?
     
  3. civ_king

    civ_king Deus Caritas Est

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    Afghanistan lacks functioning institutions
     
  4. attackfighter

    attackfighter Emperor

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    You realise that the Muslims were killing and enslaving people they conquered, right? I realise that nowadays it's all the rage to be apologetic over every single act committed by the evil white man, but that version of events is simply leftist propaganda. The truth is that Muslim rule entailed more than just jizya fun times...
     
  5. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    I don't know what you just said but ok.
     
  6. Terxpahseyton

    Terxpahseyton How much Parmesan to put on your umbrella?

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    Duh, who didn't?
     
  7. Tycho

    Tycho AFK Forum Warrior

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    So sorry, did I mention that the Muslims were having fun over in the Holy Land during that time period? Wasn't aware that I did so. :)

    Now, on to business.

    Citing that the Muslims were killing and enslaving the people they conquered and that they were the big, bad evil of that time, is a load of crap, and you know it. What do you think continental Europe was doing at this time? Throwing a party with punch and sandwhiches and finger food? Far from it; Europe enjoyed more than it's fair share of bloody war between everyone while the Muslims were sitting over in the Holy Land, doing their enslaving and killing.
     
  8. attackfighter

    attackfighter Emperor

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    So you know the facts but still don't think having your brothers and sisters killed or enslaved is justification for war?
     
  9. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    How many French noblemen had siblings in Palestine? :huh:
     
  10. attackfighter

    attackfighter Emperor

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    You haven't heard of the term "brothers and sisters in faith"? (and yes I'm aware they were Orthodox, but that's close enough to warrant aid)
     
  11. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    I meant it ironically. The point was that the people conducted the crusades had only the most tenuous of links to victimised Christians in Palestine, and given that they were patently not of a humanist inclination, the "religious zealot" interpretation would seem to win out.
     
  12. GrandAdmiral

    GrandAdmiral Deity

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    Isn't that what you did when you praised Timur as the greatest man alive?

    As opposed to what? You could say that about any society even if you left out people that were born 700 years ago.
     
  13. Ziggy Stardust

    Ziggy Stardust New Englander

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    Thread went weird in a hurry.
     
  14. attackfighter

    attackfighter Emperor

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    Why does it matter if they aren't humanists? It's basic human instinct to want to defend members of your "tribe" regardless of whether or not you feel sorry for them. It's not like modern day blacks legitimately feel sorrow for their ancestors - it's that they hear about their ancestors being enslaved and interpret it as a transgression against their race as whole. In this case the Christian's were clearly wronged and the crusaders were entirely justified in retaliating on behalf of their brothas.
     
  15. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    I meant "humanitarian", my bad. :blush:

    I think that you're stretching it. To the extent that there's a "tribal instinct", it's based in real communities- concrete, everyday relationships- and in symbolic extensions of them. Modern blacks feel sorrow for the plight of historical blacks by recognise a continuity between their experiences, a shared experience of marginalisation, of being a black person in a white person's world. Frankish noblemen could not realistically be said to have that sort of connection with Palestinian commoners, simply because they shared certain forms of religious practice and belief. That's not to say that some individuals may have not have been so moved, nor that all of them were completely unmoved, of course not, but this psychological mechanism of "tribal solidarity" is simply not viable as a motivation for the entire crusading movement.

    (The fact that they also launched crusades into the cheerfully Christian-free territories of Al Andalus and the Baltic Coast, and against fellow Christians of an apparently unacceptable denomination, doesn't exactly help.)
     
  16. attackfighter

    attackfighter Emperor

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    Okay fine, so their hearts weren't in the right place. Still, in the end the Arabs got what they deserved.
     
  17. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    "The Arabs" were not a hive-mind. Most of those who suffered had nothing to do with the suffering inflicted on Christians, and most of those responsible got off scot free. You may as well say that the Eastern Front was the Russians getting what they deserved for the Holodomor. It's nonsense bordering on racism.
     
  18. Dachs

    Dachs Hero of the Soviet Union

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    That is not how the Crusades started.
     
  19. attackfighter

    attackfighter Emperor

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    They should have thought of the potential consequences before pledging loyalty to Islam while living in highly sought after territory. Alternative options are always open.
     
  20. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    That is complete nonsense on all levels.
     
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