Africa

[puglover]

I read a poem by an African-American recently. It related how Africa was disrupted and destroyed by the Europeans who colonized it. The problem I see is that most African literature I hear about seems to talk about Europeans exclusively as slavers, colonizers, and conquerors.

I don't hear anything written about the terror and destruction of African tribal feuds before and after European contact. I don't hear anything written about the doctors, humanitarians, and missionaries of Europe who gave up everything they had to help those in need in a foreign country. I don't hear anything about the roads, technology, and order that many Europeans brought.

I do not want to undermine or hide the suffering European slavers and imperialists brought to the African continent in any way. However I do want to point out that much good is being done for their hurting land, and some attention needs to be brought to the fact that some whites are giving their all for peace even today, and need some gratitude. You can't change the fundamental human condition, but you can't change history to exaggerate your perceptions either.

These are my thoughts, but I'm no expert on African history. Am I on the right track, or on another planet altogether?

 

[Perfection]

A whole lot of tribal violence was fueled by European interests.

Technology is little solice when your nation is destroyed, enslaved, and impoverished.

 

[puglover]

A whole lot of tribal violence was fueled by European interests.

Technology is little solice when your nation is destroyed, enslaved, and impoverished.

But it still seems as if Europeans are put in this box, labeled as imperialist and evil. As if all European influence was negative.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

The ultimate problem is that people, whether African or European or whatever, are people. The Africans co-existed or destroyed each other based on their whims. Then the Europeans showed up and used their technology to exploit the Africans just as some Africans had exploited each other. It has nothing to do with skin color, it happens anytime one culture makes contact with another technologically inferior culture.

 

[Perfection]

But it still seems as if Europeans are put in this box, labeled as imperialist and evil. As if all European influence was negative.

Well I'd have to read the poem to judge it properly, but there was a huge net negative effect of European imperialism.

 

[.Shane.]

The Africans co-existed or destroyed each other based on their whims.

Do you know this as fact? Or are you just talking about your as.. errr... behind?

More seriously, African history, esp. pre-colonial era, is probably I'd wager that is very low on this list of topics w/in the grasp of this forum. I'd love to hear more about this (you could be right, I'm not disagreeing, per se) but have it qualified so we know that someone is speaking from a base of knowledge.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Do you know this as fact? Or are you just talking about your as.. errr... behind?

More seriously, African history, esp. pre-colonial era, is probably I'd wager that is very low on this list of topics w/in the grasp of this forum. I'd love to hear more about this (you could be right, I'm not disagreeing, per se) but have it qualified so we know that someone is speaking from a base of knowledge.

I'm basing this on my knowledge of human nature and history. Every other continent saw some groups co-exist peacefully and others conquer. There were empires in Africa pre-colonization, and empires usually don't happen without war.

 

[.Shane.]

I'm basing this on my knowledge of human nature and history. Every other continent saw some groups co-exist peacefully and others conquer. There were empires in Africa pre-colonization, and empires usually don't happen without war.

I'd agree that based on general knowlegde of human history and behavior, you could very well be right.

Personally, though, I keep assumptions to myself that I can't factually support. My point is, if we all tried to answer this based on a generic read of of history/humanity, we'll end up missing a lot and making a ton of false assumptions, etc...

/e-shrug

 

[Elrohir]

Do you know this as fact? Or are you just talking about your as.. errr... behind?

More seriously, African history, esp. pre-colonial era, is probably I'd wager that is very low on this list of topics w/in the grasp of this forum. I'd love to hear more about this (you could be right, I'm not disagreeing, per se) but have it qualified so we know that someone is speaking from a base of knowledge.

As far as I can tell, outside of Mali and Egypt, most of Africa's history until European colonization is a series of bloody wars between fueding tribes, where the men were killed, and the women and children enslaved.

Pretty much what happened everywhere else; just less documentation.

 

[Verbose]

I don't hear anything written about the terror and destruction of African tribal feuds before and after European contact. I don't hear anything written about the doctors, humanitarians, and missionaries of Europe who gave up everything they had to help those in need in a foreign country. I don't hear anything about the roads, technology, and order that many Europeans brought.

Because all of those were part of the parcel of western dominance. All these good deeds destroyed traditional societies more effectively than the atrocities ever could. There's no going back from them. There isn't even a way for African societies to recreate what life was like before the westerners arrived, which is how the "postcolonial situation" can be summed up. (Though westerners are always at hand to hand over pat little stories of how absolutely horrid it all was.)

Europeans gave the Africans "the fruits of modernity". But giving people things in such a way that it shows up their comparable weakness and subordination is actually and agressive act. (Especially if you've first been defeated and subjected by force.) If you're given a gift you didn't ask for, cannot refuse and cannot repay, you've really been outed to the world as a pityful creature.
So the more Good and Generous western colonialism became, the more useless the Africans were regarded as. From a western POV it was the whole point — making Us look Good, and Them look Bad, which can then be used to justify why we occupy their land and kill them if they get uppity.

Essentially Africans have been told: "You are nothing without us and have nothing without us." There are all kinds of scenarios for transferring western modernity is much less brutal ways, but Africa has pretty much had it forced down its throat while being told to be bloody grateful for it.

Small wonder they tend to resent it. I would. So would you, I imagine.

 

[7ronin]

African-American studies in the United States whatever their focus, historical, political, sociological, or other, tend to be agenda driven. Native Africans good, Europeans bad, Western Civilization bad. The arts, including the poet in the OP, follow along. Fail to conform and you get drummed out of the club.

 

[Rhymes]

Africa was thorn by tribal wars way before europeans colonized them.
The difference is, a feud is more bloody with ak-47 then with spears.

 

[Uiler]

I guess it can be put this way:

Before Europeans: African wars were probably more like the wars between princes in Europe. Frequent and bloody but the area was generally stable. You had working power structures, hierarchies and relationships.

Effect of Europeans in Africa: WW2 like devastation. A wipeout. Probably even worse as all the old political strutures and relatonships which maintained stability completely destroyed. Sure you left with a few highways, but in terms of political structure and cultural bonds, Africa got busted back to the late Neolithic. Essentially all the civilizations and structures they built up are simply gone. It's even worse then the fall of the Roman Empire because at least that happened over many centuries given time for power bases to build up in the provinces which could govern seperate from Rome. In Africa, they are almost starting from scratch. What if the earliest farmers had AK-47s? Well, that's Africa. The so-called "countries" in Africa are mostly a fiction. Result: anarchy. We're starting at the tribal stage here and working our way up to countries.

The thing is the West is not staying out of it. It is actively interfering in the African wars. Take for example the diamond trade or America's current funding of the Somali warlords. Without the West funding sides, either through direct funding or through the black market, they probably would have exhausted their resources a long time ago and the stronger party would have beaten the weaker ones and formed a stable government or if sides are equal eventually they'll become too exhausted to fight. Forget about sacrosanct country borders. The nation-state was invented by West Europeans because it worked well for their particular situation. Look how well it's (not) worked in Eastern Europe for example. Africa is just a more bloody example of E. Europe. It's attempting to break up the countries formed by colonists into ones more closely following ethnic groups. Probably for the best in the end really. Just let them.

Just stay out of it. Let them fight it out amongst themselves. Don't give them money for arms (yes, we're talking to you America). May victory go to the strongest.

It pains me to say this, but aid is probably making the situation worse as well.

Besides, if you don't interfere, the eventually victor won't hate you. He won't love you either but he won't bear an eternal enmity against you.

Also as far as I understand things like roads and railways the colonists built didn't actually benefit the Africans that much because they were all built going the wrong way because they were built to benefit colonists ie. getting resources out of the countries as rapidly as possibly and not say connecting major African population centres.

 

[amadeus]

Essentially Africans have been told: "You are nothing without us and have nothing without us." There are all kinds of scenarios for transferring western modernity is much less brutal ways, but Africa has pretty much had it forced down its throat while being told to be bloody grateful for it.

Small wonder they tend to resent it. I would. So would you, I imagine.

Can you really say that?

How many people leave Africa to live in the West? How many people leave the West to live in Africa?

 

[amadeus]

(yes, we're talking to you America).

U.S. arms sales account to only 1% of all total arms sales to Africa.

Better luck next time.

 

[Uiler]

Can you really say that?

How many people leave Africa to live in the West? How many people leave the West to live in Africa?

I know some Africans who live in the West. I think the exact quote is, "We like Hitler because he fought the colonists." These are fluent English-speaking university educated businessmen. At a BBQ I was talking to another African (pretty well-off businessman, educated English-speaker) and he expressed over his fried sausages and Coke his sentiments that the West oppressed Africa and his sorrow that there was no "black" history but African history was only told from the POV of the whites.

Well not exactly a representative sample but just my experience.

They move to the West for money. Same as Chinese. Honestly what is with Americans and their belief that Asians and Africans only have to be exposed to the glory that is America and suddenly there is a magic conversion to Americans. There's still bitterness amongst Chinese, even in Westernised HK about the West's actions in the past. People move to America for money. It's just that simple. Except for the few political activists that Americans like to hold up as represenatives of all people in their country and probably make up 1% of immigrants.

 

[Uiler]

U.S. arms sales account to only 1% of all total arms sales to Africa.

Better luck next time.

It is common knowledge that the US has been funding warlords in Somalia which is the specific example I refered to. It's been all over the news lately. Where have you been? Under a rock?

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

It is common knowledge that the US has been funding warlords in Somalia which is the specific example I refered to. It's been all over the news lately. Where have you been? Under a rock?

I haven't heard anything about it. What news sources? And is it the US government, private citizens, or US-run arms companies? Just wondering.

 

[The Yankee]

Perhaps one needs to read a wide swath of African literature. It's possible puglover read a work by a tribe that either did not sell off its own in the slave trade or was summarily screwed by the imperial powers after the trade ended. After all, "Africa" is not a single nation or tribe.

 

[The Yankee]

But it still seems as if Europeans are put in this box, labeled as imperialist and evil. As if all European influence was negative.

It is pretty hard to appreciate improvements while under the gun. Maybe some acknowledgement of goods will come in the future decades. We're still not that far from colonial Africa...and the way the borders were drawn leaves a rather nasty legacy for many of the states.