African civilizations

[Xandinho]

Which of these African civilizations you would like to see included in civilization?

Angola
Bantu peoples
Benin Empire
Great Zimbabwe
Kaabu
Kanem Empire
Kingdom of Aksum
Kingdom of Mutapa
Kingdom of Nri
Kongo
Madagascar
Mali
Nigeria
Nok Civilization
Nubia
Oyo Empire
South Africa
Sudan
Tanzania

 

[Guandao]

I can't see many of the modern African countries as civs. They just haven't accomplished much or are run by corrupt governments.

For others, I want Ashanti/Asante, Dahomey, Swahili/Kilwa, Somalia (not the modern version, of course but medieval)

 

[Arachnofiend]

Anyone here familiar with African history to the point of being able to argue the influence of these civs? I'm specifically looking for countries that were capable of exerting influence outside of their immediate territorial boundaries. I think Kongo fits the bill with their trade empire but I'm not sure about any others (trying not to make any assumptions since I know next to nothing about non-Arab Africa).

 

[Reedstilt]

For voting, I limited myself to my top three. I picked Nri and Zimbabwe because we could use some non-military focused African Civs to balance out Songhai and Zulu. Nri would make a good and tourism focused Civ, while Zimbabwe would make a good defensive trade Civ. For my third, I picked Madagascar, because the Austronesians need more love from the game as well.

I'd also love to see Kongo, Swahili, Nubia, and Buganda Civs as well, among others. I wouldn't want a Bantu-blob since we already have the Zulu (but I'd be happy to have other individual Bantu people, like the aforementioned Kongo). For similar reasons I wouldn't want Aksum because Ethiopia already exists. Now if Ethiopia were redone to focus on modern Ethiopia and leave the ancient stuff to Aksum, then I could be persuaded otherwise.

 

[phaethon16]

I think it would be weird if Ethiopia, an incredibly old civilization, had the old parts if it removed, so I wouldn't want to see Aksum if it meant altering what is one of my favorite civs. For Kongo, who would people want as the leader? Personally, I see two choices; Nimi a Lukeni lua Mvemba (Alvaro I,) or Nzinga Mbande. Each has its own main pros, with Alvaro being actually Kongelese, a modernizing figure, and a symbol of how Kongo tied itself to Portugal. On the other hand, Nzinga was super capable, both in war and peace, and was respected throughout Europe. Since I think any Kongo civ would be a blob of Kongo, Ndongo, and Matamba anyway, I don't see it as a problem that she wasn't technically Kongolese. Which of the two do people prefer?

 

[zukenft]

we already have 3 north african civ, and one each from west, east and south. this leaves the central african civ. I vote kongo, although the jungle start won't make for good AI...

 

[Arachnofiend]

Kongo doesn't necessarily have to start in jungle, any more than America necessarily has to start on the coastline. Civs should only get a start bias if their uniques synergize with that terrain, I think.

As for phaethon's question, I'm not too picky as to which person the leader would be but from my limited (read: Wikipedia-based) knowledge of the people's history I'd like the UA to be based around Alvaro's legacy. Raising up a powerful hub of the Catholic church through the education of lay people rather than any actual ordained clergy is pretty cool. I'd translate it into Civ as a UA that gives faith for specialists; this wouldn't give you any help in founding a religion but it would give you a crap load of faith to work with in the late game. Throw in a nod to Kongolese sculpture and you have yourself a strong culture civ.

 

[Xandinho]

My favorites are Kongo, Benin Empire, Great Zimbabwe and South Africa (although your chances are minimal)

I think Kongo and Benin will soon be added to the game, in a third expansion or for Civ 6

The Nigeria is widely criticized, but I can not see the most populous country in Africa outside of civilization.
I like the idea of the Nigeria in the game, but I think if you go to Benin, the Nigeria does not enter

 

[Viregel]

My favorites are Kongo, Benin Empire, Great Zimbabwe and South Africa (although your chances are minimal)

I think Kongo and Benin will soon be added to the game, in a third expansion or for Civ 6

The Nigeria is widely criticized, but I can not see the most populous country in Africa outside of civilization.
I like the idea of the Nigeria in the game, but I think if you go to Benin, the Nigeria does not enter

I don't know enough about Nigeria to criticize it, but what would the civ look like to you?

 

[Xandinho]

I don't know enough about Nigeria to criticize it, but what would the civ look like to you?

I also do not know much about Nigeria, but as it is the most populous country in Africa, I think he deserved a place in Civilization, whether by the Benin Empire or the modern Nigeria

 

[SuperWaffle247]

I think Mali, Kongo and Nubia are essential to an expanded representation of Africa in Civ 5. Mali, I think, can be easily differentiated from Songhai in terms of playstyle - it should be a gold civ, not a war civ. And Mansa Musa is the clear leader choice, uniques are pretty easy for them too. Nubia would be great as well, though I don'[t know how I'd formulate it. Kongo was on everyone's BNW list before Morocco was revealed, if that tells you anything.

I'd say a Swahili or Kilwa Civ - something to represent the East African coasts is essential as well. Give them a bonus to sea trade, and maybe a Nau-like unit for an earlier era.

I'm also a fan of including Ashanti and/or Dahomey. I think Oyo falls into this category but I don't know much about them.

 

[phaethon16]

I think that since Songhai is already in the game and since Nubia would also a gold civ, it would get preference, especially since Mali would have a limited city list.

 

[SuperWaffle247]

I think that since Songhai is already in the game and since Nubia would also a gold civ, it would get preference, especially since Mali would have a limited city list.

I definitely agree if we're talking about civs for an expansion or something (which makes sense given that we're in ideas and suggestions.) But I'd be open to playing with both Nubia and Mali in a big civ pack or an Africa themed mod.

Also, I just read your Nubia post and I like it a lot! Wish I could come up with creative UA ideas...

 

[phaethon16]

Thanks, I'm glad you like it. I like Mali as a civ choice, and I would be totally open to a mod with both Nubia and Mali.