Africans 'under siege' in Moscow

[jessiecat]

Say, jessiecat, how much foreign languages do you know?

I agreed with you guys after it was explained. What's the problem? If you must know, only some knowledge of French and Spanish. Why do you ask?

 

[Gelion]

No, Russia has an enormous problem with racism, its perfectly obvious, even Putin has admitted it. Just because it doesnt extrned to every single non-Russian nationality doesnt mean its not a huge prblem.

As Snorrius has already explained, Russian racism is overstated. I have to say that, from what I can tell, that Russia has never been as racist as it is right now. However, the prospects for non-Russians to achieve positions of power have always been in favour of other nationalities. All of Soviet leaders were non-Russians. A joke to illustrate:

One Englishman is a gentleman. Two Englishmen is a bet. Three Englishmen is a parliament. One Frenchman is a lady's man. Two Frenchmen is a duel. Three Frenchmen is a Paris commune. One Jew is a merchant. Two Jews is an intenrional chess tournament. Three Jews is Russian national orchestra.

 

[Snorrius]

No, Russia has an enormous problem with racism, its perfectly obvious, even Putin has admitted it. Just because it doesnt extrned to every single non-Russian nationality doesnt mean its not a huge prblem.

I do not say it is not a problem, though the real problem is how to cure it? Soviet Union followed policy which resembles current US one (i.e. state propaganda, extensive control, law control and such) but after USSR crashed there were big anti-Russian oppression, pogroms and millions of Russians had to leave former Soviet Republic and migrate to Russia. And some years later native nationalities from this republics started to migrate in Russia in searching of work. Historically Russian were quite tolerant nation (much more tolerant than Anglo-Saxon and most of European nations) but the USSR crash spoiled things a little.

 

[Snorrius]

I agreed with you guys after it was explained. What's the problem? If you must know, only some knowledge of French and Spanish. Why do you ask?

Probably just misunderstood your metaphor.

 

[RedRalph]

As Snorrius has already explained, Russian racism is overstated. I have to say that, from what I can tell, that Russia has never been as racist as it is right now. However, the prospects for non-Russians to achieve positions of power have always been in favour of other nationalities. All of Soviet leaders were non-Russians. A joke to illustrate:

One Englishman is a gentleman. Two Englishmen is a bet. Three Englishmen is a parliament. One Frenchman is a lady's man. Two Frenchmen is a duel. Three Frenchmen is a Paris commune. One Jew is a merchant. Two Jews is an intenrional chess tournament. Three Jews is Russian national orchestra.

No they weren't Lenin, Andropov, Chernenko and Gorbachev were all Russian. you seem to be confusing 'people from the former dear and beloved USSR' with 'everyone who isnt Russia'. What are the chances of a Black guy getting high up in United Russia? Or a Indian taking over gazprom? when are russians going to stop making monkey noises at black footballerS?

you know I generally gotz nothing but love fo' tha' muthaland, but there is undeniably a huge problem with racism there man.

 

[Ecofarm]

Soviet Union followed policy which resembles current US one (i.e. state propaganda, extensive control, law control and such)

So the US, today, is like the Soviet Union and Russia is like what?

 

[Gelion]

No they weren't Lenin, Andropov, Chernenko and Gorbachev were all Russian.

Lenin was a mixed nationality.
Andropov was Russian, but he ruled for one year.
Chernenko was Ukrainan (Yushenko doesn't ring a bell? )
Gorbachev was probably Russian, but he dissolved USSR. Doesn't say much for USSR being "Russian Empire" does it?

you seem to be confusing 'people from the former dear and beloved USSR' with 'everyone who isnt Russia'. What are the chances of a Black guy getting high up in United Russia? Or a Indian taking over gazprom? when are russians going to stop making monkey noises at black footballerS?

Yes you are right. There's a big difference betwen Russian neighours with whom Russians have a habit of living and those foreigners that come from poorer countries of the third world often labelled in subconscious of the russian mind ad "victims of capitalism/colonialism". Since USSR is over and Russia never had any relation to those states there's obviously quite a lot of opposition to that migration.
I must ask you to answer the same questions. What are the chances of an Indain getting elected as President of France? Or a Han from mainland China to become a high ranking Judge in Germany? How do English footballers behave with Indian immigrants? Russia is NOT an exception as to what happens in many European states.

you know I generally gotz nothing but love fo' tha' muthaland, but there is undeniably a huge problem with racism there man.

There's racism and there's culture. Yes, the racism is bad, but comparable to "European standarts"

 

[Gelion]

So the US, today, is like the Soviet Union and Russia is like what?

Like the states of XIX

 

[Snorrius]

No they weren't Lenin, Andropov, Chernenko and Gorbachev were all Russian. you seem to be confusing 'people from the former dear and beloved USSR' with 'everyone who isnt Russia'. What are the chances of a Black guy getting high up in United Russia? Or a Indian taking over gazprom? when are russians going to stop making monkey noises at black footballerS?

You are talking about complete strangers - there just too little Black or Indians in Russia or nearby countries to measure their chances. What are chances of Mansi in White House? Or Kalmykian? Or Buryat to take over General Motors?

 

[red_elk]

No they weren't Lenin, Andropov, Chernenko and Gorbachev were all Russian. you seem to be confusing 'people from the former dear and beloved USSR' with 'everyone who isnt Russia'. What are the chances of a Black guy getting high up in United Russia? Or a Indian taking over gazprom? when are russians going to stop making monkey noises at black footballerS?

you know I generally gotz nothing but love fo' tha' muthaland, but there is undeniably a huge problem with racism there man.

There are non-Russian people in government.
And don't tell me that Russian oligarkhs are ethnic Russians.

 

[jessiecat]

Probably just misunderstood your metaphor.

I think you did. The "creatures" I was alluding to were attitudes not people.

 

[Snorrius]

All Spahish-speaking people are racists! (Click to view a proof)

 

[Tekee]

Stupid grammer Neo-Nazis.

 

[Rossiya]

Grammar*

 

[Squonk]

This has gotten very off topic, remember that this is about what to do with Africans in Moscow. I believe that there is no harm with Russian causal racism (not institutionalized) , different people have always been living together in Russia, but if there is problems with these people (Chechens) something Must be done about it because if we don't they'll bomb the schools, the apartments, gas the theaters. I don't think we should kill them, we need some way of sending out message across, that bad actions by foreigners will not be tolerated because you are guests not Russians.

You do know that the implication is that Chechens are foreigners, so Chechnya is independent according to you?

 

[Gelion]

You do know that the implication is that Chechens are foreigners, so Chechnya is independent according to you?

And if Ukraine is not, should it be part of Russia?

 

[Flying Pig]

What? Ukraine is independant

 

[Gelion]

What? Ukraine is independant

Re-read the last two posts, mate

 

[Winner]

Lads, what I think Gelion means is that that word in Russia doesn't carry the same connotations that the trnaslation does here. Maybe its something akin to calling someone a 'coloured', 'darkie' or 'negro'. Stupid, not particularly nice, but not the hate-filled other word. Thats my reading of it. Russia is a totally different culture than the US, UK and Oz and you cant expect every word and vague translation of it to mean the exact same thing.

In Czech, there is a saying "makat jako barevnej" - "to work like a coloured". It's a part of the language now, people normally use it in common talk. You're right when you say that such words don't carry such an emotional charge in other cultures. As Yeekim said in another thread, we don't have an experience with slavery and instituted state racism, so people are not so sensitive about every word even though saying things like this would be totally politically incorrect in the US or Britain.

That said, Russia's racism is absolutely disgusting, and the nation as a whole would want to get to grips with it.

It always makes me laugh when people who otherwise attack me every single time I make a harmless generalization do the same in a much more controversial context in a different thread

You're missing the point. Russians are no racist per se. They might be slightly more xenophobic than other nations, but that's understandable given the size of their country and their historical experiences.

Racist attacks in Russia are carried out by skinheads and similar groups of thugs which exist in every country. There is a sort of rule that the worse the social situating is in a country, the more active these thugs are. Russia isn't exactly a symbol of harmonious and healthy society, so it follows that various neo-nazi/hooligan groups are pretty common, especially in big cities like Moscow. They attack visible minorities, and blacks are unfortunately standing out in a society where 95%+ people are white.

It doesn't mean the whole country is especially racist or something. It means that the bad social and political situation leads to a radicalization of certain segments of the society.

(Winner is defending Russia against RRW Word's gonna end soon )

 

[RedRalph]

Of course it doesn't mean the whole country is racist, but it means the country has a big problem with racism. Look, in a country like Russia, black people are going to stand out a mile, and there's always going to be a minority of imbeciels who give them grieft, maybe calll them names. But 60%??? That, to me, points to the country having a massive problem with racism, even if that does'nt mean Russians in general are racists. Just because its a minority, it doesn't mean its not a big problem.