After +1000 hours playing, worst luck I've ever seen

BrendanG

Chieftain
Joined
Nov 11, 2018
Messages
15
This is going to be a bit of a story, because basically everything went wrong. I started playing Civ4 again after a long break from the game. I decided to go to custom map and do ALL random -- random civ, random map size, random climate, random start age, etc. I also checked the unlimited leader and raging barbarians. It was prince difficulty, because I hate it when the AI cheats too much.

On the second game with these settings (my first game went fine), I started in the classical age (monarchy was available to research turn 1) on an archipelago map. I had a financial leader, which I thought was OP on archipelago. My capital was on an isthmus with access to two crabs, some silk, corn, and wine. Those were a lot of food tiles, so I thought I'd grab monarchy so that I make a giant capital city quickly. I thought if I can do it without neglecting my military and settlement, I'll get the great lighthouse too, and get a permanent tech lead for the whole game.

I was on a relatively small island with a Persian neighbor. The Persians get the Immortal UU which does bonus to archers. I thought, "If he has horses, and he chooses to attack me, I can't defend myself." I scouted his base and found horses just outside his cultural borders. I thought to myself, "I need to find copper or iron ASAP". But even after researching iron working, I saw no copper or iron on our start island. I thought to myself, "It is impossible for me to defend myself, because I can only spam archers, which he does bonus damage against. I have to just pray that he doesn't attack before I advance through the tech tree a bit." So, I decided to go the full-eco route, because the military route was so hopeless.

While I was building the great lighthouse, silver was found in my only mine. Normally, I'd consider this to be a good thing, but it meant that my total hammers dropped from 8 to 6. (10 to 8 after I work every single forest in reach).

Now, I knew that raging barbarians was checked, but in my previous game, I never saw a barbarian on my main island before I got it all settled. So, I thought maybe barbarians are broken on random start ages. I scouted the whole island, built 5 tile improvements, and nearly got the great lighthouse finished before the barbarians appeared. My scout got killed by a barbarian inside the Persian's cultural borders (we had open borders), a galley destroyed my fishing ships, and ~7 land units (including a swordsman and 2 axemen) attacked on land. I went from not even seeing a barbarian the whole game yet to ALL of my tile improvements being destroyed in about a dozen turns.

What was even more puzzling about this barbarian invasion than its suddenness, was that it seemed to be directed ONLY at me. Barbarians were pouring in from every direction, even walking away from the enemy base to attack me. I also checked the stats before quitting the game, and it didn't seem that the AIs were hurt by the barbarians at all. But I saw immediately before my scout was killed that the AI had only 1 archer in one of his cities that the barbarians were walking away from in order to attack me. I think if several axemen and a swordsman had ganged up on that one archer like they had on my capital, the AI would have lost a city. But it didn't happen.

After I whipped a galley, and after my winery and silver mine were destroyed, my population was very unhappy. I thought this was unacceptable; I have to defend my tile improvements. I whipped several archers to guard the entrance to my isthmus, as well as a granary to rebuild quickly. I was down to 1 population again, but I wasn't terribly concerned, because I had rebuilt my tile improvements with a granary and had an army to defend myself this time around. IMMEDIATELY after my granary was completed, it was destroyed by the hurricane random event. And to add yet more insult to injury, the moment I posted my archers on defense, the barbarians quit coming. I do not understand this, because ~50% of the island was still unsettled and unscouted.

I checked the stats, and before the barbarians attacked, I was leading in every metric: GDP, manufacturing, and food production. After the barbarian attack, I was solidly in last place. I checked the map and saw that I was down to my capital with only 1 population, whereas the Persian player seemed to be completely unharmed with 3 cities. I saved the game and quit. I don't think I'll come back unless I'm in a masochistic mood. At the rate it's going, he'll probably settle the whole island before I get back to where I was before. And there is still the issue of having no counter to his immortals.
 
You could try turning off some the random stuff as it adds noise and makes it harder to evaluate your play. Of course they can be fun so it depends what your goals are. Just try standard fractal map, normal size, normal climate and turn off events.

Also archers will do OK against immortals. Just build a bigger stack. Fortify + cultural defense will make it tough for them to take you out. You could also build walls if that's an option.
 
Did the Persians build the Great Wall? Until the average number of cities per player is 3, the barbs won't enter civilized territory. So they tend to build up in the fog. If the trigger is hit to enter civilized territory, then they'll go around the civ that has the GW.
 
Both Persian leaders do not plot war at Pleased.

Barbs especially on an archipelago should be easy to eliminate with fog busting though barb galleys may he an issue until metal casting. You do not need archery or IW
 
Thanks for the reply guys.

I mostly wrote this post to let off frustration at such a series of bad coincidences. Namely, I started with a map + start age + lack of resources that made a potential rush impossible to block, a random event permanently destroyed 20% of the manufacturing of my capital (until lumber mills) when I was already short on manufacturing, the barbarians randomly and suddenly appeared in force and attacked only me, and then the hurricane destroyed my granary (which I desperately needed to repopulate) like the turn after I had it built, and then the barbarians quit coming as soon as I had a proper defense ready (meaning my defense was useless).

I'll reply to your comments.

I chose all random on purpose, because otherwise the game would have been stale for me, since I've played so much. Like I said, I hate raising the difficulty, because the AI cheats so much, it feels like I'm playing a different game than they are.

I had random leaders and random personalities, so I had no idea whether the AI would attack or not. He was Napoleon of Persia and I was Pacal of France.

I had never fought archers vs immortals before; I just assumed that due to the bonus, the archers would not do very well.

I know that scouting the fog of war can stop barbarians from spawning. But I didn't expect the barbarians to appear at all. I also hadn't built extra units, because I thought they'd be useless against the Persian player.

I was interested in archery + iron working not because of the barbarians, but because of the threat of the Persian immortals.

I don't understand how the barbarians worked. I don't think they were spawning but not attacking, because I didn't see them when I was scouting the island. The shape of the island might have given the barbarians a slight inclination to walk towards me rather than towards the AI. As for the barbarians that walked away from the Persian player to get me, I figure maybe it was bad luck on the RNG. I figure if there's a 50/50 chance that they'll turn left or right, then 3 barbarians that spawn between me and him have a 1/8 chance to walk all towards me. So, I thought it was a combo of me not understanding how the barbarian spawn worked on late starts, plus bad luck.

I decided to continue playing. I thought, "I chose these random settings to make the game more interesting. It would be stupid if I just quit because some bad stuff happened." The game continued about how I expected. The Persian took nearly our entire start island all for himself, so I was forced to settle tiny islands off the coast. Despite having the smallest empire and lowest score, the great lighthouse + archipelago meant that I had the highest GDP. But my manufacturing was doo doo.

I was entirely at the mercy of the Persian player, so I did everything possible to make him happy. I converted to his religion, gave him the stuff he demanded, etc. He didn't attack.

As I was settling islands, I started thinking about win conditions. They all seemed impossible without manufacturing. How do I build an army or a spaceship without manufacturing? Cultural seemed possible, but difficult with low manufacturing, and also boring. Then I realized that I don't need manufacturing to get a permanent alliance. I rushed through the tech tree to get a defensive alliance and then a permanent alliance as quickly as possible. I made the Persian player my ally. It was a nice match, because he was by far the strongest player (I guess getting a 2-player island all to yourself will do that), and had the highest manufacturing, whereas I had the highest GDP. So, the game is in the bag now. I only have to decide at this point whether to go military or space race. I'll add up how many hammers it takes to build the space ship, calculate how many infantry I could build from that, and then decide.

I might consider turning off permanent alliances. They can make the game too easy. You only need to not piss off 1 other AI player to become OP. Although sometimes, other AIs will also make permanent alliances, and then it is still interesting.

I like the random settings though. It's fun to not know what's going to happen.
 
Simply uncovering the fog does not fog bust. Your unit needs to stay in a location to fog bust the tiles around it. Wondering around too much with your scout/warrior is a common mistake I used to make. This game rewards keeping those guys more stationary and fog busting the maximum number of tiles they can reach.
 
I didn't bother to finish the game, because I thought that waiting for the AI to build things would be boring. I knew it was basically impossible to lose at that point.

I just lost another game due to barbarians. But I lost it from a spearman with 0.6 health attacking a full-health warrior fortified in my capital city with combat and shock promotions. Going off the bonuses, it should have been ~3.5 vs 0.6. I know that the way bonuses work is deceptive (I can't just multiply 1.75*2), but it should still have been long odds. I was googling to try to find the combat odds for when I lost, and I read that you can read the combat log. But unfortunately, I saved over the file where I lost, so I don't know what the actual combat odds were. I figure 3.5/0.6 = 5.8333 > 5, so, the odds of a warrior attacking a knight should have been better than the actual situation. I went to the map maker and tested for a warrior attacking a knight, and it said I had < 0.1% chance of victory. So, it should have been something like a 1/1000 chance to lose that battle that made me lose my capital to the barbarians. I had an archer 1 turn away from being built when I lost the battle, so, it was rather frustrating.

I loaded the game back and put a warrior in my capital 1 turn sooner to get +5% fortified bonus, and when that happened, the spearman didn't bother to attack the second time when he had 0.6 health. So, going from +15% bonus to +20% bonus probably pushed the battle odds to 0%, so that the spearman chose to pillage instead of attack.
 
Civ IV is legendary for it listing a <0.1% chance to win and meaning a <0.1% chance to win, rather than the 0% it would be in a lot of other game. I can personally confirm as much, having lost two Cavalry to a barbarian Sword before :crazyeye:.
 
I wonder if it’s possible for a setup where the actual odds of winning a round of combat become less than the floating point minimum.
 
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