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After the Patch - Pillaging heals units - Thoughts?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Gucumatz, Sep 22, 2012.

  1. Gucumatz

    Gucumatz JS, secretly Rod Serling

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    Greg's patch notes for the upcoming patch are intriguing to say the least.

    One thing that stood out for me was the changes to pillaging. Pillaging now heals 25 hp per turn

    How drastically will that change players strategies assuming AI actually learns to pillage better?

    On Higher levels the swarms of units can act like flies - but that pillaging will help keep them alive. And on your part the ability for a mounted unit to heal 75 hp and attack the same turn seems extreemely powerful. For Denmark melee units can heal 50-100 hp a turn and still attack (depending if using the UA). The Sipahi has 5 movement and no cost to pillage.

    I think we will see people incorporate mounted units more into their armies and watch them get them earlier for promotions.

    -----

    What do you all think?
     
  2. TheMarshmallowBear

    TheMarshmallowBear Benelovent Chieftain of the BearKingdom

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    It might sound overpowered on paper, but remember that something can only be pillaged once,a nd roads do not count towards that bonus (on all scenarios/traits, Roads are not counted as proper Improvements).
     
  3. crawf0rd

    crawf0rd The One and Only

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    It buffs two things that needed buffing
    -Denmark
    -Mounted Units
    Since there is no movement cost for pillaging as denmark, they need to land, attack, pillage, move, pillage, and its like a free insta-heal
    As described above, mounted units can use their movement and ability to move after attacking to pillage a whole country side for free HP.
     
  4. Haig

    Haig Deity

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    Pillaging heals the unit a bit, cool.

    AI also uses it, supercool!

    Also it represents nicely the historical "living off the land" aspect of many armies.
     
  5. Seabastian Civ

    Seabastian Civ King

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    I always pillage... I can't wait. Ottomans just got even better!
     
  6. kaspergm

    kaspergm Deity

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    I'm dubious abut the thing in the first place since I don't really see it making much sense and it sounds very annoying, but having it heal more than using a standard heal action is downright horrible in my oppinion.

    And it certainly will make those early AI rushes a lot more annoying than they are currently, which can be a good or a bad thing depending on your perspective I guess.
     
  7. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    I like it. Sort of a foraging off the land type thing. Good for Denmark and mounted units like everyone else pointed out.
     
  8. Mercade

    Mercade the Counsellor

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    This.

    Plus, around a city there are only so many tiles to pillage. You cannot pillage a farm twice.

    And of course if you intend to keep the city, you'll hurt yourself too since you'd have to rebuild all those improvements you pillaged.
     
  9. EgyptRaider

    EgyptRaider Warlord

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    I love this addition! I always thought that war should be more about pillaging so it's not all about city capturing and but also a bit about just weakening the enemy.. Love it!
     
  10. qyll

    qyll Prince

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    Besides the buff to the Danes and mounted units, it (in general) gives a nice boost to offensive players. People who prefer to go tall will definitely not like this patch.

    Conquest victories got easier while culture/science victories may have gotten a bit harder (it's hard to say. Many people prefer to go wide for culture/science victories anyway).

    Initial rushes on immortal should still be manageable to defend against, although I definitely see ones of deity being more problematic. However, we might see less AI insanity early on since the diplo scale got widened.

    I'd also like to see different tile improvements give different amounts of health when pillaged. Certainly, farms should give more HP than mines, yes?

    I would also like to see units able to pillage their own improvements for health. It seems unfair that we can't have that available to us. Didn't the Russians burn down their own villages when Napoleon invaded? Yeah, yeah, I know there's the exploit with canceling deals and all that, but couldn't that be easily fixed? Maybe disallow units from pillaging resource tiles or incur a diplomatic penalty when you do.
     
  11. fat_tonle

    fat_tonle Prince

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    Can someone post me the patch notes... what thread are they in?
     
  12. nokmirt

    nokmirt Emperor

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    I like the idea. An army fights on its stomach, right? More tactical strategy will be involved during wars to protect your lands. Besides that it gives the AI units something to except for just milling about. Like some of you mentioned, I may play as the Danes first with the new patch.
     
  13. kamex

    kamex Emperor

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    I'm looking forward to it. I wonder if roads will count for HP restoration... I hope not, that would be over the top.

    I am hoping that this will make ancient offensive combat easier. Since G+K, I'm fed up of playing as historical ancient superpowers such as Greece and Persia and struggling to capture cities, and then feeling cheated out of their UUs.
     
  14. turingmachine

    turingmachine Emperor

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    I'm concerned the heal amount is too high. You already had the option to waste your move points and heal 10 with the standard heal. Improvements can be only pillaged once but they will be on every tile. There's very little reason to use a standard heal in enemy territory now. Not to mention it devalues healing promotions and abilities. What is so special about the Immortal now when before he could standard heal for 20 and everyone can now heal for 25? Why choose medic promotions when everyone has a 25 instant heal? The Khan is also weaker now as before he let people heal 25 but you no longer needed him now to do that. The instant heal promotion is also worse as you can now get half of its bonus just pillaging (why ever give up your promotions now?)

    You already got gold pillaging and you hurt the enemies tile yield. Those were decent bonuses by themselves. Adding a healing incentive is not a bad idea but 2.5 x the standard heal seems too much, especially in addition to the standard pillaging value.
     
  15. Glassmage

    Glassmage The Desert Flame

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    I think you mean the Khan is now even more imba with +50 hp the first few turns of a siege on the capital.
     
  16. turingmachine

    turingmachine Emperor

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    Why would the khan now give 50? His heal bonus came from using the heal action. The new pillage heal is from the pillage action. They won't stack or overlap. Basically you can get the khans heal without a khan now.
     
  17. spafey

    spafey Chieftain

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    Just do ICS 3 pop strats. No pillaging for you.

    On a more serious note, i like the idea but 25 sounds like too much to me. Especially for units with no pillage cost; Hoover up hp.

    Perhaps this should be limited to farms and camps to keep in the theme of 'feed of the land'. Pillaging an oil station or a quarry can't be healthy...
     
  18. Rooftrellen

    Rooftrellen King

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    Land units benefit, but I'm more interested in how this could affect naval warfare. Ships need a pretty high end promotion to heal outside of friendly territory. Patching them up with enemy fishing boats while maintaining an offensive could really change things in some situations, and offshore resources are common enough that it could easily save a ship or two.
     
  19. OmniPotent42

    OmniPotent42 King

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    You can still pillage, gain 25 hp, then attack or heal again, right?
    If my math is correct:

    If so, these combinations could be deadly:
    Immortal: Pillage + Medic II + heal in enemy lands = 60 HP per immortal
    Jaguar: Pillage + kill enemy + medic II + heal in enemy lands = 75 HP healed overall per jaguar
    Khan: Pillage + Medic II + heal in friendly lands = 70 HP healed for every mounted unit
    Janissary: Pillage + kill enemy + medic II + heal in enemy lands = 90 HP healed overall

    All of a sudden Faith Healers won't be enough to keep up.
     
  20. The_J

    The_J Say No 2 Net Validations Retired Moderator Supporter

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    The patch thread is here.
     

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