Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Gucumatz, Sep 22, 2012.
Vikings seem like they'll be unbeatable.
I am not going to like it in my view sure I have good defence but you know how long its going to take to rebuild all those improvments in offence and defence particulary on defence, and now the ai captures workers too this is historacal which is nice but will be insane in war.
When it is released, it'll download automatically.
People complain that the AI is horrible at combat and now that the AI will pillage more often and get a health bonus people complain since this will make the game "harder".Please it is still the AI we are talking about. I don't think this is a bad idea for multiple reasons. One melee and mounted units now have relevance again since to stop the AI from pillaging you will need to control the land around your cities. Ranged units have dominated G&K and you only needed a few melee units to do well. Now this might not be the case. Another is that the player might pillage i don't play MP but i never pillage since it is a pain to take over a city to go back and work those tiles. Now i might depending on the situation. And as for Denmark their ability has gotten a buff but i don't think it will be OP even in MP. If you have a wide empire most of your cities won't have that many improvements especially on the side which the enemy is coming from. If you have a tall empire you will have lots of improvements but you should have defensive buildings, policies that help your city defense (the Tradition one), and your cities will be larger which gives more city defense. Denmark will good for quick rushes where they sweep in for an assault and are successful but if they pillage and you can survive for a few turns then that advantage is over since there will be no more improvements to pillage.
Pillaging to recover HPs should be available to all units which can pillage. It is standard practice, but also there should be a HP drain while in foreign territory. Maybe 6HPs/turn or something such that if you keep moving it will add up, but can be recovered slowly if not moving (10 - 6 = 4HP healed/turn).
When the Goths invaded the Roman Empire in the 4th century it was because they were hungry. The incursion lasted only so long as there were foodstuffs to pillage.
Rommel relied heavily on "pillaging" to sustain his drives toward the Suez Canal.
When the Soviets were retreating from the initial German onslaught in 1941, they enacted a scorched earth policy. Now we may actually have the same sort of thing in the game.
There are also secondary effects to consider. This makes me less inclined to improve every tile I own just so the workers have something to do therefore I will be more inclined to build forts as I will actually have space for them. Furthermore this slightly increases the value of specialists as having fewer citizens working tiles means less improvements that need building.
So the attacker can pillage your tiles to gain 25 hp... but the defender can't? The food acts as magic manna to the stranger, but the locals who grew the food don't have access to its medicinal properties?
...the AI won't know how to fully utilize it, and a human will be able to take this new feature to its limit. For example: a human will consider not improving the tiles on a city where an attacker will come from. A human will consider not improving tiles on a border city they think might be attacked. The AI will improve all tiles giving the human free health!
When it comes to multiplayer this will really change the game... ranged units are already overpowered... now compound bow/xbow rushses will be so much easier, esp the unbalanced chukonus and longbows. We are talking about zombie chukonus that can never die... they already can absorb several hits, get promotions quickly for insta heals (shoot twice = twice the xp), now they can heal 25 as well.
Defenders have the Heal bonus when resting in homeland (20 instead of 10).
I still don't get the philosophy behind this change because it will speed up combat a lot
and wasn't the hole purpose of GIVING UNITS 100 HP at gods and king to slow down combat?
I just thinx its a change to help the AI it will not help to improve game balance a all
The pillage-gives-help thing will offset the loss of healing power in unfriendly turf.
I wouldn't judge a patch to harshly till you played it.
I just realized the pillaging is also a small buff for swordsmen and longswordsmen. After all it is harder to deal 25 damage to stronger units than to the weaker ones. This is why I would rather use swordsmen for a pillaging spree. There is also not an infinite amount of tiles. If I have to decide between the spearman and the swordsman pillaging a tile, I d prefer the swordsman.
Yes, they heal 20 and give up a turn of movement/attack and the pillager heals 25 AND can still move/shoot.
I think it's interesting, and I think it will make Immortal and Deity harder, because the initial rushes will take longer to recover from.
It's definitely a good buff to horse units, and about time too.
I agree it should help Swordsmen and Longswordsmen too.
On first glance, I thought it might be a bit overpowered, but now I've had time to consider and think about it, I'm not so sure... I think it will make the game more interesting...
To those who think it will help a lot for the player, I don't think it will help the player much at all, as the AI doesn't improve it's recourses at nearly the same rate as a player. More likely the player will find there are little or no improved resources when they really need them. The AI, on the other hand, will be able to sustain an early attack on a city much better. Will be particularly interesting to see how well the AI copes with this.
I agree that Denmark will have a revival of popularity!
As Japan, I'll certainly have no problems marching up to a city taking some damage and pillaging my Siege Samurai Musketmen back to health before taking the city.
This may be a sign for things to come... perhaps preparing for a new Civ, DLC, future expansion...
Agree about placing cities and developing them in term of ''pillage probabilities''. But something might change.
What if you can pillage OR attack and not both of them? So you gonna heal 10 hp(without improvement or pillaging) but automatically heal before turn begin or rapidly pillage the tile before the opponent fast click your unit until he dies.
I don't think it's op like i described. But if you can do both...enter the tile, wait for some suffering, heal(pillage), then attack...the GW will also be indirectly nerfed.
Workers get the biggest buff! They usually are useless between turn 80 and railroads (which is freaking late in the tree!).
Now they will be useful on defense to repair pillaged lands after war or on offense to rebuild the land of the newly puppeted cities. That's cool!
And i like how war Will now be a more destructive process that just a city attacked with no real consequences. I predict immortal + early rush to be highly disruptive and hard to overcome. Fighting at the border will become a must which is very cool gameplay wise and historically, but also way harder for the defense.
I can't wait to build lines of fortification at my border and cut the forest at the edge of my land.
You can build forts outside your territory right?
Yes you can and only you can use it.
I hope they expand this idea. It would be really cool if post-riflemen melee units could pillage a trading post and 'dig in', giving them a big defense bonus in addition to hit points.
On the other hand, it would also be really cool to have different improvements yield different results when destroyed:
Pillaging a farm leads to hit points (no gold).
Pillaging a mine/quarry leads to gold (no hit points).
Pillaging a Great Person Improvement leads to gold, hit points, culture, and faith all at once.
I`m not unduly worried about the pillage +25. Enemies do pillage and get the bonus from that (food, cash, etc) unless expressly ordered not to.
Be interesting to see how much it affects battles. I hate it when the enemy pillages my land, I`ll probably hate it even more when they also heal up because of it.
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