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After years of playing, what new things have you found in Civ 4?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by ZeekLTK, Sep 19, 2013.

  1. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

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    A little divided here. Firstly, I agree that all the ways/tricks/exploits to get gold makes the game a little different than if one plays it without all that stuff. Secondly, however, it doesn't feel quite right that OF will simply be lost to nothingness.

    On its own it's not too destructive, but like with spy assisted culture wins, when taken to extremes it becomes a bit silly. A bit in the same vein really, in the current G-Major game I posted a screenshot of failgold from Moai and Hermitage, of several thousand :gold: each (it's on marathon, so costs are triple, but still), and Seraiel posted a screenshot with incredible amounts of failgold from executives. Stuff like this certainly makes it easier to get gold. But on the other hand, should everything really just disappear into thin air? There are some costs involved after all. You lose pop from whipping, or forests from chopping, and you could have put all those hammers into something else. It's not a freebie, like the gold per turn trade exploit effectively is by pillaging the resource you use to boost up the GPT.
     
  2. Seraiel

    Seraiel Deity

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    Stupid question, stupid answer. I wrote that the BUG / BUFFY version of the game behaves different from the base-game. Then you ask, if BUG / BUFFY changes anything about mechanics.
     
  3. Windsor

    Windsor Flawless

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    First, what I'm actually arguing against is that fixing the OF-bug "definitely makes the game better". I think there's very valid arguments on both sides here.

    I don't see a perfect solution, but I actually prefer simply losing the OF than converting it to gold at a 1:1 ratio. That's way too good.

    If you ask me National Wonders should not give failgold at all. There's no reason for failgold here. If you're indecisive where to build a Nat.Wonder then it's your loss. You shouldn't be rewarded for this. Failgold for World Wonders is nice since it reduces the risk, but should be limited to 1 per wonder.

    For missionaries and executives there's simply no reason to allow you to queue up more than the national limit.

    Exploiting the current rules are not super-easy. There's some skill involved in maximizing the profit. My overall position however is that the game would be in a healthier state without them. With all the alternative ways of getting gold, the traditional ways gets underpowered.

    Whenever I'm in question if a rule is good or not I ask myself "is this something I want the AI to learn?" Either the AI needs to learn how to exploit the rule, or the rule should be changed.
     
  4. Windsor

    Windsor Flawless

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    You have a very solid buffer before OF gets lost. Unless you heavily chop into a build or you queue up a cheap unit in a lategame city you rarely exceed the regular overflow-limit. Calculator is rarely needed.
     
  5. Seraiel

    Seraiel Deity

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    15 :hammers: is a solid buffer? One could not whip a single Worker without losing OF and that in early game. In late game, when needing to whip Spies, it's 10 times worse.
     
  6. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

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    Not sure why you keep waging jihad on this short quote. It's an opinion, that was probably stated too one-sided, and I have in other posts offered a more balanced viewpoint, like the post you quoted above. Remove all overflow like this and you've got a micromanagement hell to make sure you don't lose too many hammers when producing this, that or the other. I don't like the exploits either, but it's probably preferable to even more nightmarish micro management.
     
  7. Testhero

    Testhero Warlord

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    CivIV Illustrated 5 :whipped: Buffy By Seraiel?
     
  8. Seraiel

    Seraiel Deity

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    I'm guessing you want me to write a guide about BUFFY and the whip, but there are already several very good guides on whipping. I'm also not enough into BUFFY or BUG to write a guide on those, so sry. CIV Illustrated 5 is most probably going to be either about war-tactics or about diplomacy + tech-trading.
     
  9. Tatran

    Tatran Deity

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    The Federal Reserve Bank event not only reduces inflation, but it also slows down the inflation growth.
     
  10. Mizar

    Mizar IM

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    You can get more diplo malus by "close borders spark tension" (current game -4 with Shake) than by declaring war (-3)
    Kinda ridiculous.:crazyeye:
     
  11. Testhero

    Testhero Warlord

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    No Buffy and the whip was just for a subtitle and as you use it playing HoF and I assume you use it for planning whips. Most guides don't show how to use Bug or Buffy to whip A lot of good guides, not really some are dated and don't cover all aspects like whip stacking Chopping into whips and overflow for fun and profit.

    Can we all vote ? My vote is for war-tactics
    Sure there are some good war guides but they lack pizazz or at least pictures

    CivIV Illustrated No1 did a great job for understanding Diplomacy already and the big discussion thread on trade abuse rounded it out nicely for me.(a focus on Tech trades nice anyway, your map trading is also amazingly profitable)

    I would like to see
    • A vignette on worker stealing; getting that woodsy 2 warrior
    • How you build up to the DoW and the early phase of an invasion; avoiding (or provoking)the dog-pile.
    • Forking with a mix of 1 and 2 move troops.
    • Stack composition; The small whipped stack in defense.
    • How WT always has a stack of siege just where he needs it ;)
    • Threatening a city and other Feints.
    • Large empires with undefended cities.
    • Acceptable losses; the costs of taking a city.
    • You could put pics in from your Tokugawa with rifles game to demonstrate drafting
    • Map trading and spying in war
    • Promotions

    Oh and after that wish list why do you name your troops with presumably their city of origin?
     
  12. Testhero

    Testhero Warlord

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    Kinda ridiculous.:crazyeye: like the cold war!
     
  13. Seraiel

    Seraiel Deity

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    I don't understand that, everything you list has been covered in CIV Illustrated 3 or 4.

    Good suggestions, but I'd need WastinTime for that guide, because even with being good at war, I'm no master of all those tactics. I usually win by managing my cities so good that I simply have more resources as others and I'm usually also further developed than my enemies from medieval times onwards, and then I roll over my cowardish enemies that only sit in their cities waiting for their death. I also never played a Tokugawa game with Rifles afaik, I once got beaten from Tokuagawa with Rifles, because I stopped research after Cuirrassiers. I also rarely fork and find it's use to be quite small and I don't threaten any cities, except if I want to get a better peacedeal.
    The others I could explain, but for me they're not very interesting, because most are about "look closely and use your brain" :D . Simple counting can make one a very efficient warmonger, especially when the surveillance is good, like seeing that an AI has 10 defenders and knowing one needs 2 cycles of bombardement before defenses are down, that one calculates for 15 defenders so attacks with 20+ troops or also as many as adequate.

    I'll write a PM ot WastinTime, but I'm not sure that he'll be interested.
     
  14. Testhero

    Testhero Warlord

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    Well looking forward to CivIV Illustrated whichever way you decide to go and looks like I have some revision homework on 3 and 4
    Dang must have been TMIT with Tokugawa Just remember it being real funny story of a total steamroller assault like you use.
    Forgot to put in;
    • The treaty table; extorting the best terms.
    You shine at that
    No need to bother WT he is probably :sleepy: after the gauntlet wake him up if CivIV Illustrated goes to war
     
  15. TheMulattoMaker

    TheMulattoMaker Dictator of RF

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    And it'll probably drop to -2 if one of his cities culture-filps to you. :mischief:
     
  16. Seraiel

    Seraiel Deity

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    When someone has a Defensive Pact, and one has a peace-treaty with the DP-partner, that peace-treaty gets cancelled when declaring war on the target. No cheese possible :D .
     
  17. bhavv

    bhavv Glorious World Dictator

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    One thing I discovered about huge and archipelago maps after playing 2 huge ones.

    AIs create vassal states a lot. On a huge map you end up with loads of AIs. All of those AI's entering emancipations = death to my glorious caste system QQ

    No more huge archipelago maps for me.
     
  18. Mizar

    Mizar IM

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    he's pleased towards me ;) (would be friendly if the close borders where only -2 like it should be)

    after wasting ~2000 hammers on :culture: buldings, the music GA and thousands of :espionage: points I'm getting close. :lol:
     
  19. bhavv

    bhavv Glorious World Dictator

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    I just tried playing on deity - small marathon no barbs archi with hanmnibal.

    I couldnt keep up with the AI's tech pace unlike on Immortal :(
     
  20. Seraiel

    Seraiel Deity

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    Now you know, just how bad that "build Monestaries and settle Scientists" - approach is.
     

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