AG Civics Mod Development

[ArbitraryGuy]

A problem with Persecution: There is not any way to remove a religion from a city. It becomes a liability very quickly, and there is nothing you can do to reverse this. You can prevent it with Theocracy, but the bonus is too small to warrant this (not to mention all the multi-religion bonuses, like Temples and Cathedrals, you lose).

Then perhaps the bonus for persecution should be larger? +2 and/or a building/military building bonus maybe?

 

[Master Kodama]

A problem with Persecution: There is not any way to remove a religion from a city. It becomes a liability very quickly, and there is nothing you can do to reverse this. You can prevent it with Theocracy, but the bonus is too small to warrant this (not to mention all the multi-religion bonuses, like Temples and Cathedrals, you lose).

Then perhaps the bonus for persecution should be larger? +2 and/or a building/military building bonus maybe?

An "Inquisitor" mod has recently been developed that allows for the creation of a unit that can remove a none-state religion from a city. Check it out in the Completed Mods subforum if you want some ideas as how to deal with this problem -- if you're interested in that kind of solution that is.

 

[Tyrion]

Very very nice... a bit of balancing needed for sure but this will be great when its polished and shiny.

I agree Capitalism should either produce unhappines or pollution or both perhaps?

 

[Dikaioma]

I agree Capitalism should either produce unhappines or pollution or both perhaps?

I was thinking both. The reason being is Capitalism is ran 100% by money, which is a double edged sword. Money being both an artificial incentive, and scarce, creates an unatural wanton at the expense of both people and nature. While it does create happiness for a small minority, the rest is getting screwed by "the man" becoming literal slaves to the corporation. If you follow our economic history from the industrial revolution to now, and since the creation of the central banking systems, you can see how everything has become increasingly expendable for the super-fast expansion of the corporation. So, in short, capitalism should give a really big boost to economy, but cause unhappiness and pollution.

 

[LittleRedPoint]

A problem with Persecution: There is not any way to remove a religion from a city. It becomes a liability very quickly, and there is nothing you can do to reverse this. You can prevent it with Theocracy, but the bonus is too small to warrant this (not to mention all the multi-religion bonuses, like Temples and Cathedrals, you lose).

Thare is a Inquisition mod, copy and paste it to this mod and you can remove other religions from city

 

[LittleRedPoint]

I was thinking both. The reason being is Capitalism is ran 100% by money, which is a double edged sword. Money being both an artificial incentive, and scarce, creates an unatural wanton at the expense of both people and nature. While it does create happiness for a small minority, the rest is getting screwed by "the man" becoming literal slaves to the corporation. If you follow our economic history from the industrial revolution to now, and since the creation of the central banking systems, you can see how everything has become increasingly expendable for the super-fast expansion of the corporation. So, in short, capitalism should give a really big boost to economy, but cause unhappiness and pollution.

All the increased production is because the corporations don't have to pay for pollution, same is with the consumerism - garbage is big problem. So these civics should have increased pollution. Then you have micro enviroment what is similar to reality

 

[ArbitraryGuy]

Let's not forget that the Soviets were big polluters, too.

Anyway, thanks for the suggestions everybody. I'm going to work on it during the Thanksgiving break.

Things to do:
-rename various civics
-add some penalties to various civics

 

[Steenreem]

Hmm sorry to say, but I think this may add a bit too much. How can the gameplay remain in tact with all these changes? I believe the game is very carefuly balanced and such a big change might completely exchange the strategical dynamics normally concerned with civics to mere 'civic choosing fun', where you just get the best civic everytime and get most of the fun from looking forward to the next civic, which does not stay fun for a long time...
The idea of things like more/other civics or customized religion seems cool to me, but the game is built on strategical dynamics, right? I would think better of this if you would tell us about the strategicaly dynamic gameplay your civics offer. That would really get my hopes up ; )
Maybe you think that with all these civics a lot of possible strategies will just 'be there'? Maybe, but don't you want the mod to be really good? Work it out so you can optimize it.
Or you plan on tweaking everything later based on feedback? That seems like a dreadfully Slow process to me.
Ofcourse it's Really difficult to say anything about ALL the strategies possible but if you could give atleast some links between civics/leaders/strats then that would be nice, tnx.

 

[Tyrion]

I think the reason its in Beta release is to get people to get it test it and work out stratagies themselves... isnt half the fun making a stratagy of your own?

 

[Dikaioma]

All the increased production is because the corporations don't have to pay for pollution, same is with the consumerism - garbage is big problem. So these civics should have increased pollution. Then you have micro enviroment what is similar to reality

You are correct. I guess I could have expanded on what I meant when I said "expendable" but this is what I was thinking at any rate.

 

[Steenreem]

I think the reason its in Beta release is to get people to get it test it and work out stratagies themselves... isnt half the fun making a stratagy of your own?

Hmm well maybe it's less fun for the tester butteh.. we care about the product right? My thought about it was really that the dynamics would go kinda out of control, but I kinda lost my own thought. Though, there should be a bést way of approach: to think it all over, or to let the tester give recommendations.

 

[kolpo]

Wow you did a lot of work with all those civics Thought one economic policy that seems to missing is weltfare: a mostly capitalistic state but with extensive social security, public education, labor regulations and healthcare. The type of system that most of europe and canada are using(even teh USA could be considered a weltfare state).

Weltfare is an extremely expensive policy, so even high maintenance could still be too cheap to reflect this. The economic performance of weltfare states seems to be the same as that of pure capitalistic ones(scandinavia, canada and germany are all very rich) but it has MUCH higher taxes(can be reflected with high maintenace, maybe even extra unhappiness).

Their are many ways implement the effects of weltfare:
-not getting the downsides of capilism while still getting most of the upsides. Balanced by an extreme high maintenance cost.
-increasing the effect of hospitals and universities because everyone has free access to them.
-or simply a health bonus to reflect the effect of free healthcare.

 

[ArbitraryGuy]

Wow you did a lot of work with all those civics Thought one economic policy that seems to missing is weltfare: a mostly capitalistic state but with extensive social security, public education, labor regulations and healthcare. The type of system that most of europe and canada are using(even teh USA could be considered a weltfare state).

Weltfare is an extremely expensive policy, so even high maintenance could still be too cheap to reflect this. The economic performance of weltfare states seems to be the same as that of pure capitalistic ones(scandinavia, canada and germany are all very rich) but it has MUCH higher taxes(can be reflected with high maintenace, maybe even extra unhappiness).

Their are many ways implement the effects of weltfare:
-not getting the downsides of capilism while still getting most of the upsides. Balanced by an extreme high maintenance cost.
-increasing the effect of hospitals and universities because everyone has free access to them.
-or simply a health bonus to reflect the effect of free healthcare.

Thanks for the input.

I'm of the opinion that "reform" capitalism is just capitalism with a limited social safety net. Thus, the way I've encorporated such a welfare state is by "capitalism" as the economic base and "equality" as the cultural value. Capitalism+Equality=Reform Capitalism=Welfare State

Thanks.

 

[ArbitraryGuy]

Hmm well maybe it's less fun for the tester butteh.. we care about the product right? My thought about it was really that the dynamics would go kinda out of control, but I kinda lost my own thought. Though, there should be a bést way of approach: to think it all over, or to let the tester give recommendations.

Keep in mind... I'm going for a more historical approach, rather than a "balanced gameplay" approach. Thus, capitalism is clearly better than earlier forms of economy and later forms of government are clearly better than earlier ones. As in history, some things work out better than otherse. Although, I still must temper the effects of some civics, as they may be WAY out of balance.

 

[BeefontheBone]

You misspelt hordes in the Slavery text, or at least in the spoiler description you posted above. Interesting ideas, but I suspect it might be a bit overcomplicated for me (and probably for the AI, too).

 

[andz]

Great Work on this

 

[kolpo]

Thanks for the input.

I'm of the opinion that "reform" capitalism is just capitalism with a limited social safety net. Thus, the way I've encorporated such a welfare state is by "capitalism" as the economic base and "equality" as the cultural value. Capitalism+Equality=Reform Capitalism=Welfare State

Thanks.

You are right capitalism + the equality value does indeed represent welfare nations well enough. I like your cultural value category because it represents the often subtle difference between states and leaders. While quite all first world nations have democracy/capitalism/human rights do their cultural values differ. Even inside a nation do they change and have different parties different cultural values.

 

[ArbitraryGuy]

I like your cultural value category because it represents the often subtle difference between states and leaders. While quite all first world nations have democracy/capitalism/human rights do their cultural values differ. Even inside a nation do they change and have different parties different cultural values.

Thanks. I'm glad you like what I've done. It's still in the works though. Thanks for your input.

Great Work on this

Thanks.

You misspelt hordes in the Slavery text, or at least in the spoiler description you posted above. Interesting ideas, but I suspect it might be a bit overcomplicated for me (and probably for the AI, too).

That's what you get when you write things in the middle of the night . I'm thinking of reworking some stuff so the AI will handle it better... for instance, that's why I didn't include negatives to most civics, AI probably can't handle it.

 

[kolpo]

You could maybe add the Inquisitor Mod unit(http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=143895) to the Religious Persecution civic, thought I don't know whatever it is possible to make the building of certain units civic dependent.

 

[andz]

i wonder why no one likes this mod.. its awesome