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AG7 - Revenge of the Democracy

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Succession Games' started by Aggie, Apr 13, 2004.

  1. Aggie

    Aggie Chieftain

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    Location:
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    This variant was first tried in AG2, but failed miserably :( This is the rematch!

    Our nation wants to have a world in which the people have a voice. Therefore all nations with non-representative governments (monarchy/feudalism/fascism/communism) are looked down upon and boycotted. We also will intervene when such a nations invade our friends (other republics/democracy.

    VARIANT RULES:
    – We have to follow the government path despotism -> republic -> democracy with all due haste.
    -When switched to a democracy we have to get trade embargoes with the republic and democratic civs vs civs with a non-representative government when they have the choice to be a republic or democracy (fascism, communism, monarchy, feudalism)
    -When a fascist, communist, monarch or feudalist civ declares war on a republic or democracy, we have to support the republic/democracy and get a MA vs the evil empire. We may make peace when the attacked civ makes peace.
    -No razing or starving of cities, except for autoraze. In general citizens should be treated well during republic and democracy. Same goes for slaves. Slaves are returned to the original civ when they are back to a representative government. In the meanwhile they may NOT be used to work our lands.
    -Trade embargoes, MA's and peace treaties have to wait for 20-turns deals to end. We don't want to ruin our rep!
    -We are allowed to switch to republic when war weariness is worse than 50%. But we have to return to a democracy when war weariness ends/isn't a big issue anymore.
    -Level is deity
    -Goal is Domination or Space.
    -Civilization: America
    -Exploits: the RBCiv exploit list is very clear and complete, so I like to stick to those. We don't need to be honorable though.

    EDIT (May 5th 21.30 h): I really like the idea to always support the republic and democracy, but that would make things too hard. Therefore:

    -When A declares on B and A is monarchy while B is republic we should help AFTER all the deals with A are expired. But we have to keep in mind that we aren't allowed to trade with A anyway (we have to get trade embargoes vs the non-representative governments).
    -We should always respect deals. So when A is republic and we have a trade deal and then they go to Communism, we have to respect our deal until it expires. But then we immediately have to get embargoes vs them.
    -We don't have to help every republic in every war. Only when they are attacked by a non-representative state.

    GAME RULES:
    Standard/unmodified. Standard map, 30% land, pangaea.
    AI Aggression: normal
    Opponents: not random
    Rules: Standard, all standard single player victories enabled. But only Space or Domination count as a win.
    Barbarians: Sedentry
    Level: Deity
    Version: 1.15

    ROSTER:
    -Aggie
    -Stapel
    -CarlosMM
    -Melifuous
    -Jack Merchant
    -Yom

    I will start with 25 turns. Next up can take 15/20 turns, and the next leader 10-15, then 10 each turn after that.

    24hrs to post a "got it" notice, and up to 48hrs after that to finish and post your turns.
     
  2. carlosMM

    carlosMM Chieftain

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    aggie: I would suggest a tiny tiny change: embragoes only vs civs that have a demo/rep available as gov and do not take it.
     
  3. jack merchant

    jack merchant Internationalist

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    Signup :).
     
  4. Aggie

    Aggie Chieftain

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    carlos, I agree with that tiny chance! Welcome Jack :)
     
  5. Aggie

    Aggie Chieftain

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    Location:
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    We start on a river and with a lot of plains. One of them has a cattle! Or scout climbs the mountain and spots hills, mountains, a lake, the northern tip of a desert (osais) and a goody hut. Washington is settled on the spot and the worker goes to the catle tile.
    Another goody hut and cattle on plains are revealed. This cattle is not on the river though.

    Washington starts with a scout.Research on Ceremonial Burial (min science)



    Turn 1 (3950 BC) Scout pops a warrior. Worker starts irrigating the cattle. We spot silks SW of Washington.

    Turn 2 (3900 BC) :sleep:

    Turn 3 (3850 BC) South of us are foodplains and a desert.

    Turn 4 (3800 BC) Washington: scout->scout. The new scout pops another warrior. This one goes home as MP. Worker starts roading the irrigated cattle tile.

    Turn 5 (3750 BC) Scout in the south pops 25 gold. Warrior sees foodplains with wheat to the SE.

    Turn 6 (3700 BC) Scout in the north finds wines. The one in the south sees a goody hut. Cattle tile is roaded, worker goes to the other cattle.

    Turn 7 (3650 BC) Again we pop 25 gold.

    IT: Washington: scout->scout.

    Turn 8 (3600 BC) Washington is size 2.

    Turn 9 (3550 BC) Scout pops settler :D This goes south for now.

    Turn 10 (3500 BC) Two scouts reveal wheats on plains NW of Washington. The settler turns back and goes to there.
    A warrior meets the English on the other side of a see strait. They don't want to trade Alphabet for Masonry.



    IT: Washington: scout->granary.

    Turn 11 (3450 BC) Scout pops warrior code.

    Turn 12 (3400 BC) England wants to trade Alpha for Warrior Code and Masonry, but I do not want this deal.

    Turn 13 (3350 BC) I see that England knows Bronze Working.

    IT: Red people meet our southermost scout.

    Turn 14 (3300 BC) These are the Babylonians. They know Bronze Working and Ceremonial Burial. And just lowered the pirce for BW :)
    I trade England Masonry, Warior Code and 35 gold for Alphabet and Bronze Working.

    Washington is size 3 now.

    IT: Babylon wants to swap CB for Alphabet, but I don't.

    Turn 15 (3250 BC) :sleep:

    Turn 16 (3200 BC) Babylon has The Wheel. New York founded, starting with a worker. A scout pops the Wheel :) We have horses in the borders of Washington. Another scout finds spices in the north.
    Yet another scout finds the borders of Germany. The have CB over us. I decide to sell Alphabet for CB and 10 gold to the Germans.

    Turn 17 (3150 BC) New York founded, starting with worker.

    Turn 18 (3100 BC) Babylon and Germany know Mysticism.

    Turn 19 (3050 BC) :sleep:

    Turn 20 (3000 BC) A scout find the Japanese. They also have Mystisicm over us. Washington is size 4 and requires 10% lux tax.

    IT: Washington: granary->settler.

    The worlds largest nations:
    -Babylon
    -England
    -Germany
    -Japan
    -Russia
    -France
    -China
    -America

    Turn 21 - 24 (2950 - 2800 BC) :sleep:

    Turn 25 (2750 BC) Babylon and Germany have Mysticism over us. Japan has that and also Iron Working.

    2750 BC save
     
  6. Aggie

    Aggie Chieftain

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    ROSTER:
    -Aggie-------------> just played
    -Jack Merchant---> up
    -Stapel-------------> on deck
    -CarlosMM
    -Melifuous
    -1 open spot
     
  7. Aggie

    Aggie Chieftain

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    Location:
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    Dotmap attempt:

     
  8. jack merchant

    jack merchant Internationalist

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    Excellent starting position there ! :D

    Got it.
     
  9. jack merchant

    jack merchant Internationalist

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    Quick question: do we allow worker buys before republic ?
     
  10. Aggie

    Aggie Chieftain

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    Jack, yes. But NOT before 1000BC (seed corn exploit according to RBCiv rules).

    EDIT: I'm sorry Jack, it's not before 2500BC!!

    We have to give back the slaves when we are republic though!
     
  11. jack merchant

    jack merchant Internationalist

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    IHT: Everything looks good

    2710 BC (1) Settler sets out to claim the silks
    2670 BC (2) We meet the French, who have IW and myst over us. NYC worker -> warrior
    2630 BC (3) Meet China, who are level with us on tech. Pick up Mysticism from a hut.
    2510 BC (6) Philadelphia founded next to the silks on the lake (1 South from red dot as I wanted a 2-food tile in range straight away), starts warrior Washington settler -> settler.
    2350 BC (10) Found Atlanta next to the Southern sugar. Luxes raised as Washington to size 4 again.
    New York worker starts chopping for a temple or a barracks.

    200 gold and 1gpt to Germany for HBR. HBR and 3gpt to France for IW.

    What I thought was the closest iron, while actually there's one right between NYC and Washington:



    I'm stopping here as that leaves some nice choices for the next player, namely where to put our next cities and setting our research goal (no preference here, though personally I'd go max on writing to reduce the price of purchase when it appears). There's a settler due in Washington next turn (by the way, I suggest placing the other blue dot S on a hill instead of a plain to give it more food).

    save
     
  12. Aggie

    Aggie Chieftain

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    Good job :) This looks like a very promising situation. Surely we will be able to make better progress than last game?

    I agree with the blue/dark green dot west of Washington. That could go south on a hill (that's the one you mean?)

    ROSTER (EDIT Apr 14 8.55 AM CET):
    -Aggie
    -Jack Merchant---> just played
    -CarlosMM --------> up
    -Stapel-------------> on deck
    -Yom
    -Melifuous
     
  13. jack merchant

    jack merchant Internationalist

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    Yep, that's the one, though I think we should settle South and West here.

    We're actually in amazing shape here; usually when I start a deity game the AI plunks down a city right next door before I've got a settler out; here, we should easily get enough cities for an FP without having to go to war at all plus 2-3 luxes.
     
  14. Yom

    Yom Re-ese Mekwanint

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    Can I signup for this game? It looks like a fun and interesting variant.
     
  15. Aggie

    Aggie Chieftain

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    Yom, you're welcome :) That means that the roster is full.
     
  16. carlosMM

    carlosMM Chieftain

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    aggie, jack: very neat playing :D
    tough choice on the placement of New York - now we miss out on a hill on river in the long run, but otherwise you'd have had to waste river starts........ that one would have had me screaming in anger...
     
  17. Aggie

    Aggie Chieftain

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    carlos, since we are at the start (and Stapel hasn't shown up yet), be my guest and take it if you have the time :)
     
  18. carlosMM

    carlosMM Chieftain

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    OK, I have it!
    :)
     
  19. carlosMM

    carlosMM Chieftain

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    Science: no chance on a min run, nor on a max run either. Writing must be very close for some civs, maybe all. Cutting the price down - I do not know if we can really cut it far. Being second to maths might be a goiod idea also (we won't ever make it as 1st). Poly is another trading option. I set research to Poly.

    For now, I trade England HBR for thei 48 Gold - won't be long until an AI sells it to them.

    (1) 2310 BC: Settler in Washington. Where should he go? On the one hand, pulling in the Wines soon would be nice, but we can hook up silks now (warrior done, wroker ordered in Philadelphia). Grabbing the growth-strong spot southeast of Atlanta is also attractive - we will need tons of workers and this would make a good worker factory later on.
    I decide to head there, Phils warrior going as guard.

    (2) 2270 BC:
    to
    (4) 2190 BC: moves
    Writing is in in France, Japan and Germany. Only Japan still has money, but the overall sum is a lot smaller than what they had combine before. Weird.

    (5) 2150 BC: Warrior in Atlanta, worker ordered (for now). Poly is in in France. I cna buy a worker for 75 Gold and 3 per from germay, they have 2 available. I decide against it - we need the money for tech. OTOH, extortions will come in soon.......
    mm Washington to grow faster and still give settler next turn

    (6) 2110 BC: settler in W, fissssh, precious fissssssshssss, and wine to go with it ;)

    (7) 2070 BC: sweet home Chicago!

    (8) 2030 BC: Seattle is at the sea :p

    (9) 1990 BC: a hut is in view!

    (10) 1950 BC: 25 Gold :(
    http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/AG7-1950BC.SAV


    remember to slide lux up and down as needed.
     
  20. carlosMM

    carlosMM Chieftain

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    some thoughts:

    We should be careful not to have too few troops - fighting will start soon enough. OTOH, we will have to farmer gambit in many towns to afford Republic on this level. Thus, we should see to it that NO AI manages to sneak a settler into 'our' peninsular. That is still way off, I hope, but we need to settle ouwards first, fill gaps later to claim as much land as possible.

    the dotmap looks good o me, if we do as jack says and shift that one west coast dot tot he hill.
     

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