Age II repesentations of French and Germans.

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

What should there be? if Normans can't really represent anyone of the middle ages perfectly (And I don't really like the idea that Charlemagne 'leads Normans' because, while Normandy was once part of his Carolingian Empire. Carolingian Emperors (or even King of France) cannot, and did NOT control Dukes of Normandy. (and never successfully established their rules over England after Duke William II won Hastings and claim English Throne). Though even with Three or Four Ages model and with civ evolutions rule. creating medieval and earlymodern representations of French and Germans of this age isn't easy.
First 'France' and 'Germany' were once unified under Carolingians. (but what should Civ names be? Carolingians? Franks? Holy Roman Empire? ) before Kingdom of France, and German states split out..
This means 'Age II' France and Germany' can be represented as either unified 'Carolingian Empire' or divided 'Kingdom of France' and various states of Germany.

The only instances that Spain also 'represents Medieval Germany' was the reign of a flemish leader 'Charles V' who held the title 'King of Spain' and 'Holy Roman Emperor', along with his domains in what's now Germany. (And the earliest compositions of Pike and Shotte infantry that's later became Tercio was Landsknecte, as deployed in the Battle of Cerignola (1503) as pike elements, with Spanish arquebusiers deployed in the same formation as 'tactical test' which was successful.)

Alternatively Germans as distinct Medieval Civilization also has potential representations, but what to choose?
A. Teutons
B. Hanse
or how to represent these? Teutons being a civ (The Teutonic Order), and Hanseatic League being their researchable civics (though in reality, Hanse did not appear to be supervised by this knight order, but had their own military wing, and also a big fan of war cogs and even successfully used ones against Longships of Nordic opponents).

 

[Phrozen]

The problem I think they found is if you have Capetian France and then The French Empire, the city names overlap quite a bit. So that is why we have the Normans, though should have Sicilian city names in their list, instead of Capetian France. So there are several options that can represent France and Germany due to the existence of French Empire and Prussia in Modern. There are:

-Burgundy
-Holy Roman Empire without Prussian cities.
-Bavaria, Saxony, or Swabia by themselves
-Aquitaine

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

but historically
1. Burgundy
- Burgundy was more Germans until the end of Hundread Years War with French punitive campaign. In Civ6, Frederick Barbarossa introduced himself as 'Ruler of Burgundy'

Greetings. I am the Holy Roman Emperor Frederick, King of Germany, Italy, Burgundy, and many others. I trust that you will rule your lands as I do: through might.

https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Frederick_Barbarossa_(Civ6)#Voiced
- Burgundy had been France enemy throughout the entire course of the war by allied with England.
2. And use 'Holy Roman Empire' for 'Divided France and Germany' options. This should include BOTH Teutonic Order AND Hanseatic Leagues (Through traditions).
3. Was Aquitaine an indepedent polity and not directly ruled from Paris? well Eleanore d'Aquitaine should be here as leader choice. (In Age III, she may rule the United States of America by default, description said 'Eleanore d'Aquitaine's descendants became president of the United States of America')

 

[Krikkit1]

I think Normans +HRE would be enough.. both are about 1/2 French and one is 1/2 German, the other 1/2 Nordic

That effectively gives 2 versions of the Age 2 French Military Super Power... continental or maritime