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Age of Ascension

Discussion in 'Crazy Spatz's Alpha Centauri Mod' started by Spatzimaus, Sep 19, 2011.

  1. dinobot386

    dinobot386 Prince

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    Hey Spatz, I was thinking, would you want to add some of the promotions you made for your Mythology mod into Acension? It would be interesting to see promotions like Venom and Disease in there (I could see a missle or bomb that gives units in the area of effect Disease)
     
  2. Amadee

    Amadee Chieftain

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    I mean that it just doesnt respond at all,even if i wait. Everything else responds except this. I can do anything but i cant get to the policy screen.

    btw, love that biobom idea
     
  3. Spatzimaus

    Spatzimaus Mad Scientist

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    A page or so ago, I asked people if they wanted stuff like this. It's easy enough to do, it's just a question of whether people are happy with the Alpha Centauri content as-is. I've obviously migrated some functions in the other direction (the Damage Reduction, Critical Strike, ,Spontaneous Healing, and Synthesis promotions appear as-is in the Mythology mod, and the logic used for the Psi promotion is duplicated for the Balance promotions).

    Now, I wouldn't want to make this sort of thing TOO pervasive. If both mods have units with the same abilities, then it starts to feel too much like you're playing the same mod in a different era. Mythology units are supposed to be very specialized, while the Ascension end of the game is designed to merge specialized units into more generally useful units (like the Plasma Artillery), so these sorts of effects wouldn't be appropriate for most units. But the few specialized ones (Troll, Ranger, etc.) could definitely be tweaked this way.
     
  4. Amadee

    Amadee Chieftain

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  5. Spatzimaus

    Spatzimaus Mad Scientist

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    Amadee, your problem is very, very simple: to use any of the three content mods (Mythology, Empire, Ascension) you MUST also use the Base mod. Your savegame doesn't have that mod activated.

    Without the Base mod, none of the others will work correctly.
     
  6. Amadee

    Amadee Chieftain

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    ty, i should have seen it.
    About the stuff dinobot said, you can put it in a extra mod you could use with this one.
     
  7. Spatzimaus

    Spatzimaus Mad Scientist

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    Not really. For reasons of balance (units being equally powerful with and without the changes) and function (requiring a tech that doesn't exist in the core game means load order becomes VERY important), it all pretty much has to go here. As it is, I've got four mods that are supposed to work together, I wouldn't want to make it five.

    I mean, just look at what you went through with that savegame. The game SHOULD have been able to know that the Base mod was required, and not only would have prevented you from starting the game without it, but would have also ensured that it loaded first every time. But since the devs never enabled the mod prerequisite functions, we just can't do that. Until they fix that (if they ever do), it's VERY difficult to make a mod that's an expansion of another mod.
     
  8. Mavfin

    Mavfin AC was still the best!

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    I would prefer the Ascension content to be compatible with other balance mods for the 'original' eras, actually. And I'm not the least bit interested in the Mythology part of it; i.e. I'd rather add SMAC-like stuff to play after launch, w/o the other two mods.
     
  9. dinobot386

    dinobot386 Prince

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    You only really need the base mod to run Asencion, but Empires is recommended
     
  10. Spatzimaus

    Spatzimaus Mad Scientist

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    New version posted. Among other things, I've finally fixed the Transcendence victory to work correctly, so this mod should be fully playable. The main things remaining:

    > Figure out why the unit models aren't working right in DX10/11
    > Add the remaining unit models
    > Add custom images when you build the new Wonders
    > One major balance pass, using what I've learned in developing the Mythology mod to improve the Ascension mod. For instance, now that I can use counter-type variables correctly, I can finally remove the Anarchy from the Transcendence 20-turn countdown. (It made things awfully boring when you could literally do nothing for those 20 turns.)
    > The Promotion integration, which'll be done inside the Base mod, allowing the Ascension and Mythology mods to finally be compatible with each other.
    > Create a good pre-placed Earth map containing the new resources.

    I make no guarantees as to timing, but I've got the Mythology mod almost functional. Once I add the last few major features to it, I'm going to let it simmer for a little while while people give feedback on its balance, which should free up a little time for Ascension work. (Of course, there's that whole "Christmas" thing...)

    ----------------------------------------------
    Now, a disclaimer. There are two known issues I have yet to track down, bugs I've experienced when playing Base+Empires+Ascension:
    1> The Players:GetUnitByID() function is failing in rare situations. I might have an idea why, but regardless, it's just failing to return a valid structure in very rare cases. This never seems to happen for the active player, and seems only limited to a small number of AI-owned units. (Not city-state or barbarian, I mean units belonging to other major empires.) This error crashes OnUnitCreated, RunCombatSim and EndCombatSim, so whatever special Lua-driven abilities these units have (if any) aren't functioning.
    2> In VERY rare situations, the game reports an invalid "pairs" access on line 112. (Since the FireTuner truncates file names, I have no way of knowing WHICH file's line 112 that is. Pretty stupid.) I've tried tracking this down through print statement debugging, but it never seems to give that error when I need it to.

    Neither of these seems to significantly impact the game experience; I simply mention them in case anyone has ideas about what could be causing them.
     
  11. Scrambles

    Scrambles Chieftain

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    > Add custom images when you build the new Wonders

    Just out of curiosity, is there a technical limitation on this one (is it not possible at the moment)? Are you looking for artwork for these (like the Myth gods) or are they coming from SMAC? If you need artwork it might be something we can all pitch in on.

    If you don't have a model for the Skimmer, the Gravtank model would probably do just fine, scale it down and add another 2 or so to the 'pack'?
     
  12. Spatzimaus

    Spatzimaus Mad Scientist

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    It's POSSIBLE. The problem is that what I really want is for it to play the actual wonder MOVIES from SMAC. So I've been looking into WonderPopup.lua and seeing if I can override that static image with some sort of video option. Because of that, I haven't really bothered with trying to make images for it; if I can't get the movies to work then I'll need a good set of fallback images, even if they're just screenshots of the movies.

    I've got a model for it, the one that Planetfall used that, in turn, was based on SMAC's original grav vehicles. I just had technical issues converting it to Civ5 that kept me from including it in the first batches.
     
  13. ForzaFiori

    ForzaFiori Chieftain

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    With the unit problems in DX10/11, does the problem keep the game from being playable? DX9 doesn't like to start on my comp, so I pretty much am forced to use DX 10/11. Basically, can I use the Ascension mod even though I'm using DX 10/11? While I'm sure that somewhere in this thread or forum the exactly problem has been discussed, I don't really understand alot of the technical jargon thrown around in mod threads, so I miss most of the specifics of what's going on.
     
  14. Spatzimaus

    Spatzimaus Mad Scientist

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    What happens is that the units are invisible. You'll still see the unit flag icons hovering in the appropriate spots, but the 3D models will be invisible for the Gravtank, Isle of the Deep, Vertol, Gravship, Bolo, Combat Mech, Orbital Death Ray, Subspace Generator, Spore Tower, Orbital Ion Cannon, and the Assault Powersuit. It makes things quite a bit harder to keep track of, but it's still playable.

    I'm still trying to figure out exactly why this is happening, but regardless, it's a problem. Note that while switching to Strategic View would help with the unit icons, that mode prevents the various combat abilities from triggering and so is not recommended.
     
  15. Amadee

    Amadee Chieftain

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    In my games the game starts to crash frequently as soon as i get near the end of the 19th century. mostly happens between turns.sometimes it happens only a few turns after i (re)loaded. (and i apologize in advance for the dorky name)

    View attachment Andy the MIGHTY_0336 AD-1916.Civ5Save
     
  16. Kyron The Wise

    Kyron The Wise Chieftain

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    For some odd reason, the AI Civs in my game (Just Base and Ascension BTW) will not go after the dilithium deposits off the coast. I know that this was a problem with AI work boats not being able to go after them and what not.

    The part that bugs me is that while the Civ, in this case Greece, would not go after the several dilithium deposits it had sitting around South America, I saw a C-S with a Dilithium harvester up.

    The C-S in question was even one of Greece's neighbors.

    Of course, I am running an older version of the mod, but it just confused me that a C-S was able to put up a harvester, and a Civ wasn't.

    Then again, maybe said C-S had already placed a fishing boat on something else, and when Dilithium was revealed, one happened to be under said boat.

    Another item I thought I should mention, is the possibilities granted by the Plant Jungle improvement.

    University+Jungle surrounding city= Bawss.

    Also, in some way I still don't understand, my Babylon civilization has about 600 GDP, while every other nation in the world....yeah, they're pretty much in the negatives. And they apparently don't even have that big of armies.

    I am fielding an army larger than any other civ, one large enough that when they declare war on me, they admit they are going to lose. And yet I stay in the 6-700s (W/o Golden Age) while all of the other nations have the crappiest economy, even though they aren't fielding a large army (At least no ANYMORE in the case of Greece. Lovely, lovely Planet Busters).

    Might be the fact that I am a Wonder Whore, and with Babylon already giving me +50% to Great Sci creation, your wonders are putting me far enough ahead of the rest, due to my flood of Great Scientists as some of the wonders increase my GP creation rate, that it has gotten to the point where I get all of the wonders first.

    Literally, once in the Nuclear Age, and up to my current point in the Mid Nanotech Era, I have built every single World Wonder you added. In one game.

    While on the topic of wonders, with that Space Elevator and the use of a Great Artist Culture Bomb, it is now possible to create a cannon that grants you territory every time you use it. Course, its fueled by Great Artists, but those aren't too hard to get.

    Well, back to creating Chaos in Civ V with my Bolo/Nessie/Combat Mech squads. :king:
     
  17. Spatzimaus

    Spatzimaus Mad Scientist

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    There should be no difference in behaviors, with one exception: the only cities that will choose to improve a dilithium will be coastal ones that have enabled the "want to connect a resource" AI path. City-states seem to go into that category a bit faster, probably because their needs aren't getting averaged out with the non-coastal cities.

    And it's not about version number; if it's called "Ascension", then it should be fully functional in this area.

    It doesn't really work like that. The AIs will only make work boats if they think there's something to use them on, and the auto-placed improvements only apply to Oil, Dilithium, and Omnicytes, not fish. The AI seems to recognize the resources just fine for the first part, and will make the boats, it's just that the BOAT's AI won't move it to the right spot. That works fine for local deposits, but if city A is landlocked and city B is coastal, and the Dilithium appears within A's area, the AI won't know to build a work boat at B and then drive it over.

    Yes. Jungles are a pure improvement on grassland (not so much for Plains), while Forests are a pure improvement on Tundra. This is deliberate; if you want those hexes to be nonproductive for the dozen or so turns it takes to plant a jungle/forest and THEN place an Improvement on the tile, just to gain an extra point of Food and maybe some research from Universities... well, it's not always going to help that much.

    Basically, in the long term you wouldn't work that tile very much anyway. The yield bonuses in this mod are structured such that once you're into the future eras you'll really only work tiles with resources on them, or with Great Improvements, while normal farms/trading posts/etc. just won't be as desirable as using another Specialist of some kind. This'd be more pronounced if you were using the Empires mod as well, as this is the reason for the Red Cross, Wall Street, etc.

    Some of this depends on your Wonders. Quite a few of the Wonders in the Digital Era are financial, while there were very, very few Wonders in earlier eras that added any kind of income. I've tried to fix this a bit, lowering the monetary benefits of the wonders in exchange for something else (like how the Planetary Transit System is now primarily a movement boost wonder), and I might do more of this. (Like I'm looking at changing the Merchant Exchange to boost all four yields instead of the current effect, but obviously boost them much less.)
    It might also depend on your choice of Policies; I've tried to boost Commerce, but the fact is that there aren't a lot of policies with financial benefits, so if the AI isn't taking those, it'll have a hard time staying competitive.

    But what it really comes down to, in my eyes, is that you're not using the Empires mod. Nearly all of my balance changes went into that mod, not this one. In that mod, I've changed the Happiness scaling, the gold production of various buildings, many AI Flavor values, and so on. So playing Base+Ascension is about as well-balanced as playing vanilla Civ5 (i.e., not really balanced at all); once you get a significant developmental lead, you'll run away with the game. The KGB, alone, would normally be enough to prevent you from building up an insurmountable lead over your opponents, and even if you're completely dominating you'd still lose a few Digital-Era Wonder races this way.

    Basically, the Mythology and Ascension mods are about content, with only minimal changes made to the core game's balance, while the Empires mod is about balance, and its only "content" are a dozen or so buildings designed to correct the game's balance. Empires also adjusts the balance on a lot of existing buildings, by slowing down the research pace and spreading bonuses around more (which doesn't penalize the AI nearly as much as the game's default overspecialization does).

    In the long term the Empires mod will add all sorts of complexity to the diplomacy and espionage areas of the game, but we're still far from that point. At the moment, it's really just a balance mod. So, I HIGHLY recommend going Base+Empires+Ascension (or Base+Empires+Mythology), even if you have no interest in those middle eras.

    I should point out that none of the things in this mod are in any way balanced for DLC civs. If DLC civs have unique buildings or unique units based on items that I've re-balanced, then the DLC UBs/UUs won't get the same changes. (Usually.)
     
  18. Spatzimaus

    Spatzimaus Mad Scientist

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    To clarify, I'm not saying that you have to use the Empires mod for this mod to function. I'm saying that only using Base+Ascension will have the same core balance as the vanilla game does. Without it, it's not uncommon to be ~30 techs ahead of your closest rival by the time you reach the Fusion Era, and yes, you'll sweep every single Wonder that way.

    If you're not going to use my balance mod, you should use someone else's. I'm trying to ensure the Unofficial Patch is compatible with my mods, as well as several other common balance mods, but until then, the Empires mod is the only balance mod that I KNOW will be compatible with this content.
     
  19. Darsnan

    Darsnan King

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    Couple small nit-picky things to post:

    1. Concerning Flood Plains: how come their destroyed by nuclear blasts? Once I clean the "Flood Plain" tiles of fallout I am seeing that they no longer have the "Flood Plain" designator, and the +2 nutrient modifier is gone. There is no mention of this in the Civilopedia.

    2. Concerning the "Power" SE: the description states "All units gain +1 movement". However aircraft don't get the +1 movement, nor do Paratroopers get +1 drop range, and Great People don't get +1 movement, either. Should the description be changed?

    Otherwise, nothing much to report other than I am still playing some pretty intense games with your mod! :goodjob:

    Edit: I'm also seeing that Artillery (which has been obsoleted at this point in the game I am playing) did not get +1 movement, either.

    D
     
  20. Spatzimaus

    Spatzimaus Mad Scientist

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    This wasn't me, that happens in the core game. The reason is that Flood Plains are a Feature type, not a terrain type. A plot can only have a single Feature type at a time, whether it's Ice, Forest, Jungle, Marsh, Flood Plain, Atoll, or Fallout. So if the game decides that fallout should be placed in a hex, it'll destroy whatever other Feature is there. For forests and such this isn't a big deal, as those can be cleared (or in my mod, replanted), but Flood Plains are obviously different.
    (Note that Hills, Mountains, and Lakes, while they do have "fake" feature entries for graphical reasons, are not actually Features. They're Plot types instead, and so don't affect the Fallout placement.)

    Unfortunately, there's nothing I can do about it without the DLL. Like most other things, I can't interrupt the AI's process to prevent the Flood Plain-removing effect from happening (except for the nuke interception logic that prevents the ENTIRE nuke effect). Personally I'd have made it so that Flood Plains and Atolls can't be replaced with Fallout, but they didn't really ask my opinion after all.

    Aircraft movement doesn't affect range, they're two different stats. All aircraft units have two movement points, solely so that if they get the Logistics promotion they'll be able to make two attacks in a turn (since each attack costs 1 MP). Adding +1 movement to them wouldn't really do anything; to add to their range would require giving the promotion +Range separately, and that'd screw up any archer or artillery units. Similarly, the paradrop range is set through a promotion and can't be altered, but the paratroopers should be getting increased land movement regardless. When I say "+1 movement" I mean exactly that; paradrop range and air unit range, despite their utility, aren't classified as "movement" by the game; it's just that adding to movement isn't as useful for some unit types as for others.

    As for Great People (or Settlers, or Workers, or any other kind of unit that doesn't have a Combat Class), promotions given by buildings or policies NEVER apply to them. What's happening internally is that the game is giving the promotion to every unit that's eligible for that promotion (through the UnitPromotions_CombatClasses table). I control which combat classes can get the promotion, so I can easily change whether something applies to air units or not, but I can't do that for units without a combat class. This same logic applies to all of the old-style promotion-giving buildings/wonders as well, but does NOT apply to things like the Planetary Transit System (which uses Lua logic I made myself, and which therefore can give those promotions to noncombat units).

    Really, what they should have done was create a UNITCOMBAT_NONCOMBAT group to put all of those other units into. It would have made this much, much easier to manage. In the meantime, I should change it to "all COMBAT units get +1 movement", which'd at least rule out the great people, settlers, and workers.

    I'll check that one. Probably just means that I didn't put UNITCOMBAT_SIEGE into the list of classes that can get it. They SHOULD be on the list, so that one's definitely a bug.
     

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