Age of Chivalry
- Thread starter Argetnyx
- Start date
The Omega
Completely Insane
Well, for a while, if I was ever feeling particularly bored, I'd start up a modded game where I had given myself every civ trait, was able to build a zero cost, very overpowered wonder, started with the best government in the game, and had a unique unit for every era.
Good times, good times.
Good times, good times.
timerover51
Deity
I have made many mods for myself, and changed many things over time, usually making it easier for me. Soon I made it too easy and ruined the gameplay. How many of you have done this and decided to make the rules more fair?
Since most of my changes have to do with boosting resource and terrain rules, the AI gets the same advantages that I do. My changes to corruption and especially pollution work both ways too. When I generate a map in the editor to play on, I will make sure that I have plenty of resources and luxuries near my desired starting location, but I also spread the goodies out so that I can have access to them once I start to expand. Since I play on huge water maps, I make sure that there are adequate resources on every island/continent.
But then there's no desire to conquer other islands other than to gain territory. You need to make only some resources on each island/continent.
timerover51
Deity
But then there's no desire to conquer other islands other than to gain territory. You need to make only some resources on each island/continent.
I do a lot of playing to test out modifications to the combat data for units, so I do a fair number of invasions in order to do so. Also, I set up a bunch of fairly potent barbarian groups with equipment up the the equivalent of World War 2 standards on various islands to test out combat changes. Plus, I do like to fully explore the map, since I do all of the editing on my Windows box, and then do the playing on my Mac laptop. Never can remember where I put everything and everyone.
timerover51
Deity
My experience with trying to trade with the AI has been about 95% negative, in all of the years of playing Civ3 and Civ3Complete, at least with respect for resources. I do reasonably well at getting maps from the AI, and that is about it. With respect to techs, I make sure that I am ahead of them by as much as possible. I have been successful selling techs to the AI, always for gold and/of maps. As for RoPs, no way, as I keep my cities pretty spread out with unoccupied land between them. I am not interested in having the AI set up shop right in the middle of one of my areas that I am reserving for later development, like when I get oil and uranium. My basic view is that the AI is my enemy, and act accordingly.
timerover51
Deity
Not sure if it is a quirk with the Mac game, or just the one that I have, but I cannot get the AI to trade. I cannot even get trades while playing the Pacific War scenario as one of the Allies. So, my comment to you, is what trading system?
As for city placement, I LIKE to do it that way. I have had a fair number of lectures about how I am doing it wrong over the course of time. I have looked at a lot of screen shots of other games, using very tight city placement, and that does not appeal to me in the least. If you like to play that way, fine, just please do not demand that I play that way.
As for playing peaceably, I believe that I said I like to modify the combat ratings, and then test the changes. I am a military historian, amoung other things that I do, and like to play with the somewhat limited combat system and what if scenarios. I have also played games where I simply am trying to get the space ship launched prior to the game ending in 2050. No opponents on the map, or far enough away so as not to bother me. Headache there is the pollution subroutine, which drove me nuts, along with corruption. Hence, the purchase of a Windows box to mod the game.
As for a "competitive tech-paced game", I play to relax, not to see how competitive I can be. My normal game time is the hour or two I have when the house is quiet and the rest of the family is sleeping or near it, and I have no interest in a highly competitive game at that hour. It is more my winding down time.
I did not find the unmodified game that terribly enjoyable to play, and I have no compunctions about saying so. I quit for quite a while because of that. For a Mac person to buy a Windows box for the sole purpose of editing a game I think is an indication that I am interested in it, but not as it comes out of the box. I have modified it so I now enjoy playing it.
You are about the fifth or sixth individual who plays the straight, unmodified game to lace into me about playing a modified version, and making it perfectly clear that I dislike the original game. It is getting very tiresome. Based on the activity in the Creations and Customizations sub-forum, there is a lot of activity and interest in changing the game. Far more interest than on any of the other forums. I suspect that those who play the unmodified game are a distinct minority.
I also was under the impression that this thread was for people who modified the game to make comments about what they do, and have they overdone the modifications of the game, making it less enjoyable. I simply posted how I have modified the game while trying to keep in even. I have no intention of changing how I play or modify the game. However, I may go back to quit posting on this forum. Original thought seems to be highly disliked here.
Calis
on time
Timerover51 and Calis,
My "so what?" comment came as a way to say that I don't see how Timerover51 response had relevance to my comment
My "so what?" comment came as a way to say that I don't see how Timerover51 response had relevance to my comment
. So what Timerover51 doesn't sign RoPs, have a clue about how to trade for resources, play competitive tech-paced games? How does his comment have relevance to mine, since he's just one player who doesn't seem to understand the epic game all that well? I know I *can* trade for resources and sign RoPs and hook up resources in the AIs territory, and I know other players *can* too. As a case-in-point, the highest scoring Hall of Fame game ever (which I doubt anyone will beat) traded for BOTH horses and iron before starting to whack the AIs with knights. So, I don't see his responseSpoonwood said:
as relevant to what players *can* do in the trading system.timerover51 said:
Calis
on time
I just can't stand the way you express your thoughts at times. This is not the first time that you step on someones toes (even if it's not indended by you)...
but maybe people just have to get used with it. I won't comment on it any more...
but maybe people just have to get used with it. I won't comment on it any more...
timerover51
Deity
I am not sure if Spoonwood understands what I am saying. I cannot get the AI to trade even when in theory it is supposed to be allied with me, as in the Pacific War scenario. The normal stance for the US if I am playing the UK is "hostile". When I play the US, the reverse is true. China is the same way. The only way I finally managed to get trades going in the scenario is play hot seat and play all of the allies, including the Netherlands. I could then trade with myself. I assume that he is playing on a Windows machine. I play on Macs. I do not know if there is a difference in programming or simply a bug in the interface between the program and my laptop, but all I can get from the AI is maps. Period. I am not sure how much simpler I can explain it.
As for the Hall of Fame, who cares? A game on there and $5 will get you a cup of overpriced coffee at Starbucks. Again, I PLAY THE GAME TO RELAX, NOT COMPETE.
As for the "epic" game, I repeat, I have a very low opinion of some of its features. Having worked in designing board and miniature war games since 1985, if a company tried to sell a game with the "epic" games corruption and pollution systems in it, they would not survive the first playtest session. The board game version of Civilization 3 does not use them. The closest I have seen any company come to the corruption and pollution concepts is a game put out by SPI in the early 1980s, that had some similar concepts, but was completely unplayable. I am still not sure why they thought that it would sell, considering some of the other outstanding games that they produced.
As for the Hall of Fame, who cares? A game on there and $5 will get you a cup of overpriced coffee at Starbucks. Again, I PLAY THE GAME TO RELAX, NOT COMPETE.
As for the "epic" game, I repeat, I have a very low opinion of some of its features. Having worked in designing board and miniature war games since 1985, if a company tried to sell a game with the "epic" games corruption and pollution systems in it, they would not survive the first playtest session. The board game version of Civilization 3 does not use them. The closest I have seen any company come to the corruption and pollution concepts is a game put out by SPI in the early 1980s, that had some similar concepts, but was completely unplayable. I am still not sure why they thought that it would sell, considering some of the other outstanding games that they produced.
OKOKCALMDOWN!
Everybody has their own playing styles, everybody has their own problems. You can criticize somebody on it, but don't offend them
.
Spoonwood: Be nice to your fellow civ3 players, they are nearly an endangered species now.
timerover51: Maybe you're doing something wrong. For the Pacifik scenario, trade during the first turn when the AIs have no opinion of your actions yet. Or just try giving something back.
Everybody has their own playing styles, everybody has their own problems. You can criticize somebody on it, but don't offend them. Spoonwood: Be nice to your fellow civ3 players, they are nearly an endangered species now.
timerover51: Maybe you're doing something wrong. For the Pacifik scenario, trade during the first turn when the AIs have no opinion of your actions yet. Or just try giving something back.
I don't know about specific scenarios... but in general if you have a *clean reputation* you can trade. I don't know what you mean by "getting the AI to trade." On a Huge map, techs will cost much more than a standard map. If you have a larger empire than the AIs, you'll pay more for resources than with a smaller empire. Other factors may come into play like the availablity of medieval infantry for iron or something like that. Sometimes you'll want to turn the sliders to all taxes to trade for techs or resources or luxuries. Or maybe you'll want to change all your scientists to taxmen. If you have some techs over an AI with a resource you can often trade techs for resources. It looks like the aforementioned game of Moonsinger had that going on (and she's not doing research really... she's more buying techs and trading them to others who don't have contact with that AI).
Many players around here care about HoF games. Calis definitely seems among them. Non-HoF players CAN pick up MANY tips and ideas that might help to improve their gameplay if they look in those threads.
With respect to features of the epic game, pollution has always come as part of the civilization series. It makes sense... it's a real-world problem. With respect to corruption, it seems to make sense to me in terms of the city-state model that the civilization series has always more or less used. Those far away from Rome surely didn't respond to the desires of Caesar the same way Romans in the city did. The "we love the leader day" partially seems to reflect this idea. On top of that, I believe it more-or-less came as a way to try and balance out features of civ II.
In civ II invariably it worked out such that you wanted to use the smallpox or ICS city spacing scheme. Corruption didn't do all that much, so you could pack cities in as tight as possible, and produce more science and military in general than you could with a wider city spacing. If you start doing that in civ III, you'll eventually lower your overall production, science and/or commerce. The settler cost of 2 citizens also helps one re-think an ICS city spacing scheme.
It's also there so that smaller empires can compete with larger ones.
Many players around here care about HoF games. Calis definitely seems among them. Non-HoF players CAN pick up MANY tips and ideas that might help to improve their gameplay if they look in those threads.
With respect to features of the epic game, pollution has always come as part of the civilization series. It makes sense... it's a real-world problem. With respect to corruption, it seems to make sense to me in terms of the city-state model that the civilization series has always more or less used. Those far away from Rome surely didn't respond to the desires of Caesar the same way Romans in the city did. The "we love the leader day" partially seems to reflect this idea. On top of that, I believe it more-or-less came as a way to try and balance out features of civ II.
In civ II invariably it worked out such that you wanted to use the smallpox or ICS city spacing scheme. Corruption didn't do all that much, so you could pack cities in as tight as possible, and produce more science and military in general than you could with a wider city spacing. If you start doing that in civ III, you'll eventually lower your overall production, science and/or commerce. The settler cost of 2 citizens also helps one re-think an ICS city spacing scheme.
It's also there so that smaller empires can compete with larger ones.
timerover51
Deity
I am not sure I am getting through to you, Spoonwood and Argetnyx. I have been playing off and on for at least 7 years plus. I have NEVER managed a trade with the AI, regardless of what has gone on it the game, for a resource or a tech. Maps is it. That is one of the reasons for getting very tired of the "epic" game, and getting a Windows box to use the editor. Mac versions do not have an editor. I do have the AI demanding techs of me, the Aztecs in particular are highly annoying with this, and also resources, but trading initiated by me, none.
Next, I have NO INTEREST in playing the way the individuals who make the Hall of Fame play. How many times do I need to say that before it gets through to you? I have looked at the game posted. I have no desire to imitate or follow what they do. I do not play the game for competition, nor do I play it to see if I do better than someone else. I play the game for fun. I regard some of the tips, like how to get the maximum number of slaves from captured cities, with total and utter disgust. Blanketing an area with roads and mines on every conceivable square fills me with horror. I have deliberately boosted resource yields, is some cases quite drastically, similar to some of the boosts in Turkhan's Test of Time mod, specifically to avoid having to mine everything in sight and blanket the land with cities. I like having surplus resources like ivory and whales and woods with game in them that are not being used, and do not have to be used. I prefer having large areas of undeveloped land between cities, regardless of what type of terrain it is, or what is located there. I understand that is viewed as very poor play by the "experts", but so what. That is how I like to play. If that attitude bothers you, I could most certainly not care less. I do not need the ego boost of proclaiming to one and all that one of my games has made the Hall of Fame.
I am very, very, very tired of being told on this forum that I need to play like the "experts" who make the Hall of Fame. I was under the assumption, which clearly is false, that an editor is provided so that you can modify the game to suit your own views and playing style. I have been working with companies designing board and miniature war games since 1985. I regard any set of game rules as merely a starting point to modifying them. Unfortunately, some of the changes that I would like to make to Civ3 Complete come in the area of hard coding, and I am not interested in getting hit with a copyright violation lawsuit.
My personal views of most of the "expert" play that I see is best not posted here, as it would more than likely get me banned.
And Argentnyx, with respect to your quote:
The demon's face is not a fearful face. It's a face wreathed in smiles.
-anonymous Japanese Unit 731 member
I have read some of the formerly classified intelligence reports describing the activities of the Japanese Unit 731. Do you have any understanding at all of exactly what they did, and who they did it too? And the really frightful thing about it is that the leaders got a free pass from the Allied War Crimes commission if they would kindly tell us all about the nice goodies they cooked up and the results of all of the experimental activities that they carried out.
Next, I have NO INTEREST in playing the way the individuals who make the Hall of Fame play. How many times do I need to say that before it gets through to you? I have looked at the game posted. I have no desire to imitate or follow what they do. I do not play the game for competition, nor do I play it to see if I do better than someone else. I play the game for fun. I regard some of the tips, like how to get the maximum number of slaves from captured cities, with total and utter disgust. Blanketing an area with roads and mines on every conceivable square fills me with horror. I have deliberately boosted resource yields, is some cases quite drastically, similar to some of the boosts in Turkhan's Test of Time mod, specifically to avoid having to mine everything in sight and blanket the land with cities. I like having surplus resources like ivory and whales and woods with game in them that are not being used, and do not have to be used. I prefer having large areas of undeveloped land between cities, regardless of what type of terrain it is, or what is located there. I understand that is viewed as very poor play by the "experts", but so what. That is how I like to play. If that attitude bothers you, I could most certainly not care less. I do not need the ego boost of proclaiming to one and all that one of my games has made the Hall of Fame.
I am very, very, very tired of being told on this forum that I need to play like the "experts" who make the Hall of Fame. I was under the assumption, which clearly is false, that an editor is provided so that you can modify the game to suit your own views and playing style. I have been working with companies designing board and miniature war games since 1985. I regard any set of game rules as merely a starting point to modifying them. Unfortunately, some of the changes that I would like to make to Civ3 Complete come in the area of hard coding, and I am not interested in getting hit with a copyright violation lawsuit.
My personal views of most of the "expert" play that I see is best not posted here, as it would more than likely get me banned.
And Argentnyx, with respect to your quote:
The demon's face is not a fearful face. It's a face wreathed in smiles.
-anonymous Japanese Unit 731 member
I have read some of the formerly classified intelligence reports describing the activities of the Japanese Unit 731. Do you have any understanding at all of exactly what they did, and who they did it too? And the really frightful thing about it is that the leaders got a free pass from the Allied War Crimes commission if they would kindly tell us all about the nice goodies they cooked up and the results of all of the experimental activities that they carried out.
Calis
on time
You claim respect and understanding for your style of play. So please pay the same respect to other peoples' preferences!!
I don't think that you get banned for writing your opinion, but for the way you write it. There are many people out there who do not care for the HOF and that's ok of course. I also lost interest in the game for quite some time, but the HOF gave me the motivation to play the game more intensive again.
I also do not care for modded games, but many others do and that's fine of course. I recognized that the creation and modding forum is a very active one, actually.
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