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Aggressive Leaders?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by GeoffWatson, Jun 5, 2009.

  1. GeoffWatson

    GeoffWatson Chieftain

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    What's the point of Aggressive leaders?
    They seem like they'd be good for wars, but I find that the economy boosting leader traits are better for warfare, by being able to afford more units or the science for better units.

    So, how do you use Aggressive leaders effectively?

    Geoff.
     
  2. Shurdus

    Shurdus Am I Napoleon?

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    Agressive leaders can get units out of the barracks that have a promo against the units they face. Axes can be promoted to cover for bonus against archers or to shock for bonus against melee. They cal also get the city raider promo.

    SO the strength lies in cheaper barracks and the bonus promotion. This can really increase the effectiveness of your army. The economic leaders may be better to recover after conquering but with the aggressive leaders it is easier to conquer. It is a tradeoff I guess. I can see aggressive as a useful trait but I prefer an economic trait too.
     
  3. Redcoat Captain

    Redcoat Captain Leader of the Redcoats!

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    Well the cheap cost of Barracks is a bonus, as you can build one quickly and get a second promotion for the new unit on top of the free Combat 1 (+10% Strength) promotion.

    I think the idea behind aggressive leaders is to spam as many units as possible and go rampaging taking one city after the other. Only problem as you say is that the economy can really lag with the AGG leadership trait and upgrading or paying maintenance costs on your units can become unreasonable.

    The free promotion and the promotion from the barracks do little to hlep though, especially in the early ages, unless you've got a powerful melee UU. A warrior with +10% Strength and +25% vs Archers will still probably lose in a straight fight if trying to take a city form a fortified archer.

    To be honest, i too find the AGG leadership trait quite undrpowered and rarely use it. If the units earnt experience faster or had a better free promotion it might be handy, but its not.
     
  4. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Combat on the warriors makes them more effective against barbarians, especially archers, making it easier to lock out barb spawns.

    The melee and gunpowder promotions are a nice bonus - there are stretches of time where wars can be largely at parity, especially with rifles and infantry. The promotions make a considerable edge then.
     
  5. DigitalBoy

    DigitalBoy Emperor

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    Free Combat I gives aggressive leaders' units easy access to Shock or Pinch, which is pretty important when their enemy equivalents are just running around with Combat I. It also gives easy access to Medic I, which is vital for keeping your stack moving along quickly. If you were a non-aggressive leader, you would need to squeeze some extra XP from either combat or civics/great generals for a Medic I unit, not that it would be difficult, but it's more convenient and reliable for aggressive leaders.

    With CivIV's combat system, a small difference in strength can translate into a very large difference in combat odds, so I don't doubt that the Combat I promotion makes a large difference over the course of a war.

    Cheap barracks and a free promotion also have good synergy well with drafting.
     
  6. Iranon

    Iranon Deity Whipping Boy

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    Fast barracks and free combat promotions are also going to be useful for rushes... if one is possible/advisable.

    Still, my favourite warmonger is Asoka and he doesn't even hae a military UU... ORG is useful to afford the conquests, SPI to switch back between warmonger and rcovery mode and to suck up to people you aren't ready to fight yet.
     
  7. Dozmonic

    Dozmonic Chieftain

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    For me it's as has already been said, having combat 1 means that a built unit can more readily upgrade and specialise. I love aggressive leaders.
     
  8. Crusher1

    Crusher1 King

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    Free combat 1 promotion for gunpowder and melee units with +100% production on barracks.

    Use them for early warfare and in conjunction with whip/chop gold overflow to power research and support more units than you can normally afford.
     
  9. ParadigmShifter

    ParadigmShifter Random Nonsense Generator

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    It's +100% production of barracks, so it takes 50% as long ;)
     
  10. Crusher1

    Crusher1 King

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    Me too ^^. He saves 1 early turn on BW early and the fast workers chop forest down quicker too. Barring a special UU Asoka has the strongest and fastest executable rush available.
     
  11. ParadigmShifter

    ParadigmShifter Random Nonsense Generator

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    Stalin's pretty good since he's the only aggressive leader that starts with mining.
     
  12. sydhe

    sydhe King of Kongs

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    Tokugawa should theoretically produce really awesome gunpowder units if he didn't suck otherwise.
     
  13. Roxlimn

    Roxlimn Deity

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    Tokugawa's Gunpowder units aren't theoretically awesome - they actually are incredibly awesome. If you can survive at tech parity up through Nationalism and Rifling, you'll have the game in the bag - Toku's gunpowder units are that awesome.

    Geoff:

    The way to use Aggressive Leaders is to use their cheap barracks and powerful attacking troops to take land from the AI, then manage your economy to take advantage of it. They're economically more challenging to play, but wars are easier, relatively speaking.
     
  14. Zubbus

    Zubbus Antarctican Predator

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    Every one of Tokugawa's gunpowder unit has 3 promotions. That's a lot more "U" than some "UUs". So it's like he's got 11 UUs (and no traits).

    Also, further to digitalboy's first 2 points on Combat I:
    Do not underestimate Combat I by itself. +10% may look smaller than +25% (well, and I guess it SHOULD :D ), but it is always on-
    CR won't apply when you're next to a city but are being attacked; and
    CD won't apply when you find yourself needing to attack from your city;
    +25% vs something may seem very smart, but if you take 3 of those you only have +25% vs 3 unit types, whereas 3 ranks of Combat would have given you 30% vs everything. And if you only have 1 or 2 +25% vs and are attacking, you're going to be met by something you don't have the bonus against.

    What it won't do is try to save your butt when you're miles behind in tech :D

    Also, melee may be able to take CR, but gunpowders can't. So Combat is as good as any for attacking for them.
     
  15. Iranon

    Iranon Deity Whipping Boy

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    Combat can also be fully equal to city raider when fighting units of a much lower base strength... like Rifles vs. Longbows (which might still not be autowins, especially with Protective Longbows defending hilly cities).
     

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