Agreed to not to spy on me again, caught twice later

black213

black213

Emperor
Joined
Mar 12, 2010
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1,686
What's up with this? In the renaissance I caught Genghis spying on me, I told him to stop and he agreed, but later I caught him spying again on me, twice.
:crazyeye:
 
Adjuvant said:
It means he doesn't care what you think. Surely you've denounced him?
Click to expand...

I didn't denounce him since we were otherwise on good terms.

And I'm not sure is the AI programmed to lie about not spying again, I doubt that.
 
I think it is programmed to lie. Sad thing is a human lieing is strategy, but an AI lieing is lame randomness.
 
The opponent may be Genghis and maybe some people find this fun, but come on, we're playing a computer here. I'm more inclined to believe that this is a bug, as it happens very often with a lot of other civilizations as well.

I had Elizabeth, Napoleon, Caesar, Ghandi, Isabella, Boudica, Alexander and Dido all lie to me about spying and some of them were my friends (DoF) at the time. What is even the point of them promising not to do it again? This AI behaviour has now has lead me to believe that all AIs lie all the time and therefore I should just DoW and conquer them (if possible) as the only means to stopping their espionage (until the Great Firewall anyway - but who plays that long?). I don't find that one bit enjoyable or fun.
 
Never ever trust what the AI says, especially in this game. If it happens again, denounce him. If it keeps happening, declare war and wipe him out.
 
See it like this: if you asked the USA to stop spying on you with the CIA, what would their reaction be? :)

I believe that they all just make placating noises while continuing what they were doing. Would be nice if they were serious about it, but it does not look like it.
 
The really sad part is that you can get a negative modifier for asking them to stop spying on you, I lost a couple of friends (DoF) who promptly denounced ME for asking THEM to stop spying on me!
 
mackintosh said:
The opponent may be Genghis and maybe some people find this fun, but come on, we're playing a computer here. I'm more inclined to believe that this is a bug, as it happens very often with a lot of other civilizations as well.

I had Elizabeth, Napoleon, Caesar, Ghandi, Isabella, Boudica, Alexander and Dido all lie to me about spying and some of them were my friends (DoF) at the time. What is even the point of them promising not to do it again? This AI behaviour has now has lead me to believe that all AIs lie all the time and therefore I should just DoW and conquer them (if possible) as the only means to stopping their espionage (until the Great Firewall anyway - but who plays that long?). I don't find that one bit enjoyable or fun.
Click to expand...

Hmm Didn't play gods and king so much I didn't even entered the renaissance (I just played the early game) because I had to go on vacation(i am currently now at vacation) So I have no time to play

I agree on you if thats the case... Its by the way the same case with settling the Ai gets mad if you settle close to them and dow you for it but they don't mind settling close to you and if you say something aobut they like how dare you?

I still don't get firaxis why did they put so many effort into adding new diplomatic options and modifiers and make DOF verry important when the AI just acts like a human player and backstabs you constantly? Its like they want to give the player a feeling there is diplomacy but in reality its not


Oslo there are a lot of modifiers who might be a good idea but it doesn't't really work in the game. One example of this is the warmonger penalty its now even more sensetive in gods and king and unplayable...

"dennis promised that they would fix it he said at pax interview :
"a lot of people didn't like how warmongering hate worked"
SO they basicly didn't do what they said anybody feels betrayed?


Anyways maybe I am compalining to soon I will play a full game at saturday and declare war 2 times and see if the warmonger penalty decases over time..
 
kaltorak said:
I think it is programmed to lie. Sad thing is a human lieing is strategy, but an AI lieing is lame randomness.
Click to expand...

The AI is programmed to lie almost exclusively it seems, to the point that the only certain thing the AI will do is stab you in the back. Doesn't matter if they have been friends since the ancient era and you are in the modern ages, once they see a hole in your defenses, or sometimes even if they DON'T see a hole in your defenses and even state outright they're expecting to fail, MINE MINE MINE MINE MINE.
 
Vidszhite said:
The AI is programmed to lie almost exclusively it seems, to the point that the only certain thing the AI will do is stab you in the back. Doesn't matter if they have been friends since the ancient era and you are in the modern ages, once they see a hole in your defenses, or sometimes even if they DON'T see a hole in your defenses and even state outright they're expecting to fail, MINE MINE MINE MINE MINE.
Click to expand...

So what you're saying is diplomacy is still the same as in vanilla?

If this is true then they are lying to there customers saying you are improving diplomacy and you aren't doing it.

If so I basicly I am ripped of? (if diplomacy indead didn't change)

(didn't play gods and king so much So all information oculd be usefull)
 
AI have kept their word before. Keep in mind the don't spy on me mechanic currently only applies to tech stealing and there are still missing parts to it like telling off the AI from city states you own.

I'm a bit puzzled why this even needs its own thread. Do people experience something and come running to make a post? :p
 
apocalypse105 said:
So what you're saying is diplomacy is still the same as in vanilla?
Click to expand...

No

ie. Siam and Spain:

Spoiler :


If this was Vanilla, Siam would have already overrun Spain (and everyone else) with elephants. But he didn't - in fact, they constantly declared friendship and would renew them every time it expired.
 
The topic is mute. If the AI lied all the time, it would be being totally honest.... We want the AI to win and play with some cheek! It's fun to be back-stabbed. We do not want a sanitized game experience. If we want a nice game, we should go and play solitaire.

Just cool down and enjoy being back stabbed or play at a lower difficulty. There is no shame in doing that because difficulty level is highly variable and dependent on many things. Just play civ and let the AI play to win.

Cheers
 
Eh, maybe. The AI lies. One of the stat modifiers, CMIIW, is deception. http://forums.2kgames.com/showthread.php?106570-AI-Diplomacy-From-the-XML-(A-Quck-Interpretation) But, that doesn't really invalidate DoF's. If anything they make them more interesting. You have to work at your alliances, and choose to prioritize your alliances, even when sometimes they are troublesome (like with espionage). Besides, i like that my allies are still competing. It feels more like a union of equals than highering lapdogs. I already have those, they're called CS.

And DoF's are useful. You can make huge profits and gain good resources with trades on DoF. Plus I really like RA's. I've heard they've been nerfed, but I haven't noticed the difference in my Celtic play through. I also really like that my allies get happier with me when I let the transgression slide (after I capture their spy). Plus, I now have two secret agents so mostly they're just giving me xp. And, slightly off topic sorry, the demands my allies make of me are _much_ more reasonable in G&K.
 
It also opens faustian bargains where you might be forced to be friends with an AI even knowing full well they are spying on you either because you don't want to go to war with them or can't go to war with them. Or you prioritize the alliance wit them over the couple of techs they've stolen so.

I generally find the AI is fairly consistent. If they have ill designs on you, they will steal techs. I've yet to see any of my long-term friends steal from me. So if an AI is stealing from you, they probably would just as easily DoW on you if the conditions are right.

That's a fair way to put it.
 
I really hate grammer nazis and have terrible puncuation/grammer myself... But this one always gets in my craw.

The topic is moot not mute.

On topic, there are 55 different items that each AI personality is ranked on (boldness, loyalty, war, friendly, etc) from 1 to 10. Deception is one of them and some leaders with higher numbers are Monty, Cathy, and Napoleon. Some leaders with lower numbers are Gandhi, Genghis, and Gustav. That's not to say that they'll NEVER lie, but the likelihood of them doing so over many games is much smaller than the higher ranked ones. Also, people tend to have a better memory for things that piss them off than things that are neutral/make them happy... So there is always a memory bias for the negative things the AI does. I'm sure there are many other times the AI has kept it's promise and it just goes unnoticed.
 
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