Discussion in 'Civ3 - General Discussions' started by Whythat, Apr 11, 2009.
Does being an Agricultural civilization only help in desert or is it always a benefit?
You also get 1 extra food in your city center tile, and aqueducts are cheaper. Agri cultures grow faster because of those bonuses.
Agricultural civilizations get an extra food in all cities. Until you get out of Despotism, this bonus only applies to cities built along a river or next to a freshwater lake.
Another great feature of Despotism.
The natural question becomes, does agricultural then more qualify as a growth trait or a production trait? I would guess newbies would say growth, while more advanced players will say production.
No question about it, agricultural is a growth trait. While faster growth does yield higher production, to say this is a production trait is inaccurate. After all, faster growth also allows for more specialists, which would make this a science/commerce trait as well.
yes yes i agree. since the growth is first in line, agricultural would be growth, since the other (production, commerce, whatever else you want to say) come as triggers from the growth, it would only make sence if agricultural was a growth type.
It all comes back to food. Without food, there would be no people, no anything. Food is everything.
of course, so agricultural is a growth trait that helps out other parts by froviding more food/citizens
I disagree. The agricultural trait doesn't just allow one's cities to grow faster. For players who use workers throughly, it allows one to produce an extra shield or 2 at size 12 in each city. Cities don't grow past size 12 in most of my games at least, or if they do grow past size 12, it's after the wars are over (in a histographic game), it's basically only in one city (20k game), or the extra food doesn't do so much anymore (in a space game), as I need so much food to fill the box past size 12. If I use disconnect-reconnect, the agricultural trait gets my cities to 10 or 15 shields faster, where I can level off growth if I like. So, I view it more as a production trait, as it gives you faster production, and it probably takes a few turns off of improvements/units in each city.
but the cities produce more shields because the food grown gets you more citizens that gets you the food. it all goes back to the food
In a way it does "all" go back to food. However, you don't just get more production just because of faster growth with the agricultural trait, if you use it well. Let's say I have my city of Persepolis which hits size 12. That's a non-agricultural city, so let's say it can produce 22 shields per turn with grassland around and a few hills at 24 fpt turn (meaning no gain or loss of food in the box). Now, suppose we have Chichen Itza as our city instead. If we forest another grassland square, Chichen Itza can produce 23 shields per turn at the same site as Persepolis, or possibly 24 shields per turn if it can use a hill with 24 fpt. If you're training 70 shield knights without any upgrades, 24 shields per turn gives you 3 turn knights with 2 shield overrun per knight, while 22 shields per turn gives you 4 turn knights with 18 shield overrun per knight. Chichent Itza also builds the Military Academy faster and armies faster also, as well as other structures.
Shouldn't that be 18 shield overrun?
Thanks Snarkhunter, you're correct, and I've edited it.
I understood your point before you stated it, but being able to trade the extra food for an extra shield doesn't make it a production trait. That's just another reason why Agricultural is such a strong trait.
I think spoonwood is empisizing (spelling? sorry not a native brit ) that when growth is no longer possible (like size 12 since hospitals are a long way off) then the surplus food can be used to work tiles with low food/high shield (like hills) and still have enough food. (you can work 3 hill tiles for the total three food the city tile itself is generating).
I don't believe however that those few extra shields are the main advantage of agri though... While they are nice (like spoonwood pointed out to optimize production) you can always keep building workers/settlers in pop-maxed cities (to name but one possibility). I multiplay a fair lot with friends and the early rex-boost agri gives (so before the city is at pop-max) is the main reason i stand a good chance to win a game. By the time you're cities have grown to size 12 a turn more or less on a building or unit normally has less significance for me. ( i dont know about sid level, maybe its different there..)
I find the agricultural trait along with industrial trait one of the best combination.
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