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Ahmadinejad "wins" Iran presidential election

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Abaddon, Jun 13, 2009.

  1. amadeus

    amadeus The Choice of a New Generation

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    Or that there might be repercussions for those that openly defy the Iranian government on foreign soil?
     
  2. Miles Teg

    Miles Teg Nuclear Powered Mentat

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    Do you think the CIA would make an Iranian soccer player disapear to blame it on Ahmadinejad?
     
  3. amadeus

    amadeus The Choice of a New Generation

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    I'll bet the CIA slipped LSD into their drinks, which made them think ill of their Great, Democratically-Elected Leader.
     
  4. Miles Teg

    Miles Teg Nuclear Powered Mentat

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    And they've programmed hundreds of thousands of innocent Iranians. But the code only activates when you read foreign media. So stick with Press TV and you'll be safe.
     
  5. RulerOfDaPeople

    RulerOfDaPeople Emperor

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    Cyrus the Great must be rolling over in his Mausoleum right about now. :p
     
  6. Dachs

    Dachs Hero of the Soviet Union

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    Kurush had no particular democratic inclination.
     
  7. choxorn

    choxorn Watermelon Headcrab

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    Actually, it probably was about the same, freedom-wise, in Ancient Persia as in Modern Iran, and you never saw Cyrus the Great threatening to destroy the Jews on a daily basis.
     
  8. CCA

    CCA Emperor

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    Zens position became untenable 5 days ago.
     
  9. RulerOfDaPeople

    RulerOfDaPeople Emperor

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    Kurush? What?

    Anyway I'll asume you meant Persia/Cyrus so I guess that means I have to explain what I meant. Cyrus was particularly known for his TOLORANCE and respect for the cultures that he conquered. Here, the government won't even tolorate communicating among the people in which it rules over.
     
  10. Dachs

    Dachs Hero of the Soviet Union

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    You don't see the leadership in the Islamic Republic threatening to do that either. Kurush wasn't big on elections at all. You people is weeeeeeird.
    This isn't a multiculturalism issue.
     
  11. aelf

    aelf Ashen One

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  12. choxorn

    choxorn Watermelon Headcrab

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    Well, okay, not daily, but frequently. Cyrus never threatened to destroy any ethnic group, and the ones he conquered well enough that they all liked him, even if he did conquer them.

    Sure, it was ancient times, so there were no elections yet, but, not like Iran is exactly Democratic either.
     
  13. innonimatu

    innonimatu Deity

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    No, it's not. If the election's official results are right then the Iranian government's reactions so far have been reasonable. Faced with what appears to be an attempt at revolution, and faced also with declared enemy nations possibly ready to exploit it, they're so far managed to appear firm without allowing their capital to collapse into violent anarchy or resorting to a real crack down (you know, chinese-style...) on protests.

    And despite the many complains and allegations, mostly posted on the Internet, I have seen no convincing evidence yet that the election was stolen. There are some interesting arguments about odd results, but I don't know enough about Iranian politics to believe them - not do the vast majority of the people commenting on it here. So why the widespread assumption that the protesters are the ones for democracy? Did the candidate that they support really won? Because if it didn't then they're not standing for democracy...

    The only facts I can be sure about are the overall circumstances of the election and the government reactions to protests: if the election was stolen that was done in a strangely inept way. An undemocratic, repressive regime should have kept a hold on the candidates (especially as they could and did vet them - that's the one obviously undemocratic thing about iranian elections) and not allowed such a dangerous situation to develop. Not after seeing so many other examples of elections (and disputes over results) causing regimes to collapse in recent years. Also, despite reports that communications are being disrupted, the iranian government didn't do the simple and obvious thing: pull the plug on the half-dozen fiber cables and almost entirely cut off the country, temporarily, from the rest of the world.

    So it seems that the government was caught by surprise, and that makes me suspect that the election was not stolen. Which would leave as a cause of all this the jockeying for power among the iranian political elite. I may just be too cynical, but I expect that in the end many people here will be disappointed with their own haste to believe what they're read. I do recall the last discussion of this kind here, over the war on Georgia. It turned out that the media reported a lot of lies, form both sites during the war, and afterwards the whole thing was quickly buried and forgotten, lest people be embarrassed...

    The only thing I risk guessing about Iran now is that the current protests seem to have a clear strategy: emulate the events of 1978-79 which let to the overthrow of the Shah. But they lack a charismatic leader, and they may have to face a government with more that just half-hearted support by its own security services. I don't see another revolution happening.
     
  14. Imperialmajesty

    Imperialmajesty Emperor

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    Gotta love the Iranians. They can recite beautiful poetry from memory that hearkens to the pleasures of life, while having a theocratic government. Only 1.4 percent of the population actually attend Friday prayers. Woman are subject to a restrictive dress code, yet make up 60 % of the students entering university. The man who expanded the Sassanid Empire to its greatest extent, Khosrau Parvez, is also the man responsible the fatal weakening of the Sassanid empire(along with the Byzantines), allowing for the conquest of Persia by Islam. A nation of contradictions Iran is, past and present.
     
  15. Cheezy the Wiz

    Cheezy the Wiz Socialist In A Hurry

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    For the first year or so after the Revolution, there was no real central leader. Khomeini only came to prominence, and the various factions (of which there were many) in rebellion only united with him after two things happened: the extremely outspoken American voice against the regime, and the threat (and reality) of war with Iraq.
     
  16. Dachs

    Dachs Hero of the Soviet Union

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    So since this isn't about ethnic groups, why is that particular part of his personality and rule relevant?
    They are a damned sight more democratic now than they were back during Kurush Wuzurg's time. He'd probably wonder what this electioneering farce is and why the leaders of the country were bothering with this crap.
    Every nation's a land of contradictions, it's how it goes. So's Germany, apparently.
     
  17. Imperialmajesty

    Imperialmajesty Emperor

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    I know that, but I am fascinated with Iran's contradictions.
     
  18. zenspiderz

    zenspiderz Just some bloke..

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    I made no assumptions about the affiliations of those not wearing green wristbands; they weren't wearing their votes on their sleeves so who knows which way they voted? maybe the rest all voted for rezai:D. My observation was only that 6 out of 18 is 33% same as the official count for mousavis vote.

    A piece of idle speculation - it could be that the football team hearing about all this fuss back home got together to talk about it. They asked each other who they had voted for and found that just 6 out of the 18 players had voted mousavi.. nice middle class people like some of you probably think footballers are too thick to do the math. But there again maybe they realised that 6 out of 18 is 33% same as mousavis share of the vote. Well given they also probably heard that powerful rafsanjani had been accused of corruption they probably realised that the claim of vote fraud had been a desperate act by the those corrupt people in the establishment to stop an ahmadi re-election which they feared would result in criminal prosecutions for them...

    So the football team decided to send a message to the folks back home showing how just how many of them had voted mousavi by wearing green armbands during the TV coverage of their game.
     
  19. zenspiderz

    zenspiderz Just some bloke..

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    I am not convinced by your argument either. While being azeri probably counts for something and Mousavi did get west azerbijan, it is clear for reasons already stated that ahmadi would have a significant pull with azeris; enough to get east azerbijan if not the west.

    Given Mousavi hasn't been in politics for 20 years it is probably down to khatami that he got ANY votes at all.

    Perhaps but he has helped a lot of poor people. And the poor vote is huge just ask Chavez ;)! He also hinted that he would fight corruption which is probably the main cause of economic problems. And just before the election he made a strong start by going after rafsanjani. A LOT of people are going to give ahmadi the chance to follow through on that.
    In tehran yes being mayor would give him some prominence. 60% is a decent score. His position is much stronger in 2009. Without khatami i don't see mousavi getting more than a few % less than karoubi probably. And rafsanjani certainly has the potential to severly damage his vote.
    Yes the competition is stiffer but his position is stronger so in the end he gets only a slight increase of his 2005 share of the vote.
    Well most governments do that from time to time. Actually a lot of non-government organisations do that too not to mention private individuals. It doesn't mean mousavi isn't falsely crying foul to save himself and his corrupt mates from prosecution.

    Perhaps but it may not have been ahmadi that swallowed his support as everyone assumes. Mousavi doesn't have much apart from the apparent backing of khatami. Whichever way you look at it is pretty doubtful he can come out of the nowhere and get enough votes to even bring the vote to a run off let alone win outright. karoubi and mousavi may have calculated that getting all karoubis support to vote mousavi was their best chance of getting a run off.

    It depends how riled up they are.
    Oh they would have accepted defeat had mousavi not called the election fake. And the thing is people tend to mix mainly with people of their own class/income group and vote according to their class interest. So a entire neighbourhood in uptown tehran might well have voted mousavi but that doesn't mean all those poor people did the same. Nice middle class people don't ask poor people for their opinion, they are barely aware they exist at all.
    There is plenty of room for suspicion, but the mousavi/rafsanjani crew's actions are at least as suspicious as anyone elses.

    I don't doubt that some riot cops or indeed militia men got real rough with some of the protesters. Cops in the main are tough working class people with a high sense of civic duty, likely they are mainly ahmadi voters too. they would see all these spoilt, pampered middle class whiners disgracing the countries name and creating opportunities for the countries enemies and consider them at best stupid dupes and at worst traitors, i bet they were just itching to break some faces.
     
  20. JerichoHill

    JerichoHill Bedrock of Knowledge

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    One, it was 8 players. The captain wore his armband the whole game. The rest for a half. Two, you're speculating without anything to corroborate, plus a few insults at posters doesn't make your argument. Three, if they did intend what you proclaim, then it surely was misinterpreted and honestly, its a bit too detailed of a message, plus it falls apart since it wasn't 6 players
     

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