Ahoy!

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by N0mad, Jan 20, 2010.

  1. N0mad

    N0mad Chieftain

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    I used to play a lot of CIV2 back in the day and loved it! I am on my way out of college and just finishing up a few things this semester and have a lot of time on my hands, so I downloaded CIV REV on the xbox and it made me puke with its' simplicity! So I went out and purchased BTS, Should I have purchased the Colonization?

    I now have CIVIV:BTS and have started a new game! I am an old CIV2 GOLD ED player so I quickly built settlers and started expanding like crazy! I guess I am here to ask if this is the proper way to start BTS? I know there is no "proper" way, but fast expansion(16+) fast cities was the norm back then! I feel like it takes FOREVER to get settlers out, plus there are these things called workers now! What happened to the good old days of one unit that does both! I used to also rush out Republic to get things churning well. I am a little over-whelmed and should read the Civilpedia but there are so many

    I am the Vikings and there are F*cking elephants and :):):):) all around my area(8 p), I have found France and it looks like we are on one continent. Napoleon seems to be peaceful with me and even offered me a open boarders pact. I did Accept. I have arond 5 cities right now, to his TWO! But someone his score is higher than mine, His boarder also has a fricken sweet Great Wall on it, I am so Jel of it!:nuke:

    Any Newb advice would be appreciated! Thanks!
    Lata!

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  2. vhhawk

    vhhawk Warlord

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    Quick answer from another near-n00b. Should you have bought Colonization? Well, this BTS thing has got at least a year of play in it, then there's the mods ... so I'd say no. This game is enormous. Make lots of mistakes and have fun.
     
  3. Bluto_Longneck

    Bluto_Longneck Chieftain

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    BTS has years in it.

    Every new game you start up will be a new experience.

    I can still sit here and say: Wow!, when I start a randomscriptmap or a shuffle.
     
  4. Sian

    Sian Emperor

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    a good suggestion would be ignoring everything you've learned in CivII ... at least untill you know how to apply it ... Futhermore Colonization is a standalone game based on the civIV:BTS engine and is largely seen as somewhat lacking in execution.

    For starters, nowadays you're cities cost maintainence you can't support a big empire if you don't have fairly advanced cities which can carry themselves (and they can't before you make them)

    But really ... start yourself out with reading Sisiutil's Stategy Guide for Beginners
     
  5. Baldyr

    Baldyr "Hit It"

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    Yeah, its time to go back to school N0mad! :lol: And I'm talking as a fellow Civ2 players, even if I played some Civ3 - which helped me to get into the current version.

    Take the time to study the game and it will all be so much easier. If you really know your Civ2 it will only be that much easier, not that you can assume you already know anything about this game. But you will quickly see the similarities and pick up the differences.

    As for your questions, you should probably not expand as quickly in CivIV, but its still basically the right thing to do early on. The thing is that your economy will hurt before you can get some quality in the quantity. And high maintenance and low :commerce: equals poor :science:. As you know, you'll get nowhere without a Tech lead in Civ - so that still applies.

    One thing you would have picked up eventually is that building Settlers (and Workers) doesn't take away any citizens from your city. It will halt city growth though, so it all equals out in the end. This is why you can't go for a Settler as the first thing you build in a new city, as the city will be stuck at size 1 and the Settler will take forever to build as a consequence. Let the city grow a bit and then build a Worker. Make the Worker get you some additional food, as Settlers (and Workers) are built with both :hammers: (thats shields in Civ2 terms) and :food: (Food). Because they are still your citizens, remember?

    My typical build queue for a newly founded looks something like this: Workboat (always first if there is seafood available!), Warrior, Warrior, Worker (once the city has grown), Warrior, Warrior, Settler (once the Worker has built a Farm or something). All those Warriors are good for keeping your citizens happy with the Hereditary Rule civic (which comes with the Monarchy Tech). And they upgrade to any melee or gunpowder unit - if you got the dough the pay for the upgrade. (This would probably be your main use for :gold: in this version.)

    Also note that the Archer (and later Longbowman) is your basic city defender. The Spearman (formerly Phalanx) is a secondary unit you only need to build if your enemies have access to Horses (special resource).

    You will also soon realize that you can't rush buy stuff any more - until late in the game. There is a civic called Slavery that will let you sacrifice population points for :hammers:, though. This is probably the single most powerful new tool in the game once you learn to master it. Look into it when you can spare the attention.

    Lastly, I'm sure you will learn to love CivIV once you learn the ropes, as I did. But I also know Civ2 will always remain your first love! :)
     
  6. Galadrion

    Galadrion Warlord

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    Oh boy, do you have a steep learning curve ahead of you! Let's see, now...

    Settlers vs. workers. Settlers now only build cities. It's still a one-shot, though - building a city uses up the settler. For all other work outside of the city - at least on land - you use a worker. The good news: this doesn't use up the worker - they're pretty much a permanent workforce, at least unless someone captures them. (Then they become that leader's permanent workforce.) To work water resources, though, you need a work boat, and that's another one-shot deal - you use the work boat to set up fishing nets/whaling fleets/drilling platforms, and the work boat is used up. The nets/fleets/platforms remain until they're plundered (or go obsolete, in the case of whaling fleets).

    Rapid Early eXpansion (REXing) is no longer a good strategy. Thanks to mushrooming city maintenance, you're likely to drive your economy into the toilet - and because there's a bit of a lag, a new player to this version of the game is quite likely to overextend to the point that the entire economy is going to maintenance, he's still losing money, and (eventually) the military disbands on him. Usually, that's when the barbarians (or worse, Monty) come calling...

    Different government options. Entire strategy articles can be (and have been!) written on these. They tend to be situational - a good choice under one set of circumstances can be very bad under others. Free example: Pacifism is great if you're looking to generate a Great Person (or several Great People) - but if you've got a large military, it'll destroy your economy. Likewise, State Property is wonderful for reducing expenses in a far-flung empire... but it stops cold any attempt to use corporations. Just like in real-life politics, it's all a matter of trade-offs.

    Regarding Napoleon with the Great Wall... as far as the espionage game goes, you're probably hosed. Napoleon likes using espionage anyway, and with that wonder (especially if it's the only one in that particular city) he's probably going to get three or four Great Spies eventually. Two or three settled Great Spies, plus Scotland Yard in the same city, likely his capital? From that one city alone, he's going to be generating at least sixty EPT - more if he uses espionage buildings (courthouse, jail, security center, intelligence agency...) and allocates budget to the spying game through the slider. Best bet is to deal with Nappy sooner rather than later, and take him out firmly. Personally, I'd target the Great Wall city first, if at all possible.

    Overall, though, Napoleon is not the worst neighbor to have, not by a large margin. Monty and Shaka are both much more aggressive, and Isabella is a rampaging, psychotic moonbat unless you share her religion... in which case, you're likely to get flack from all the other leaders who don't share it. Don't know if it's my imagination or not, but when Izzy's stirring up the wars, the tolerance the other leaders have for her favorite religion tends to go right down the tubes...

    Oh, and from my own personal experience, DON'T TRUST THE ENGLISH! Every flippin' game I've ever played where they showed up as anything except my colonial governors, they've eventually gone to war against me, usually completely out of the blue. Rassin'-frassin' mercantilist mercenary scheming lobster-backed <mutter-mutter-mutter>...
     
  7. Ataxerxes

    Ataxerxes Deity

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    Just to add a couple of points. Not a real good player myself.

    If Napoleon is the only one on your continent, he won't trade techs with you. He'll consider anything he has you don't as a "monopoly" tech. I'd be jealous of the great wall, too. So I'd vote for taking out Napoleon as well.

    Getting 5 cities up fast is pretty good, but not too many more. There's a city maintenance for the number of cities that can get harsh if you have too many cities too early. Capital city spots are usually very good, so Paris sounds like a good next city. I'd try to get to Optics fairly soon, build a Caravel, and find the rest of the world. You might be behind for a while if they've been trading with each other, but with a continent of your own, you'll probably catch up.

    Most players seem to prefer a worker as their first build unless there's a seafood resource near the capital, in which case workboat first is good. I find worker first and worker techs quickly is the best thing I learned from the forums.
     
  8. N0mad

    N0mad Chieftain

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    oi! I started a new game before I read this and expanded like a crazy man and I was over ran by barbarians and Khan! I did make the switch to Warrior Worker Settler though ahah!(Prince Difficulty)

    I will def read the Sisiutil's Stategy Guide for Beginners! Thanks for the link!

    I know Civ2 will always be my lover, I would pay $30 for them to just leave that game alone, but beef up the AI/Diplo in it. It was so easy to just start a game and have a booming empire going in just 10 minutes!

    I can tell there are a lot of things to learn so I just have to start reading!

    I have one other question though, I thought I picked a larger styled map with continents, but the curser on the minimap looks like the map is tiny, I guess I was going to ask if the minimap is in relativity to the area I am in ? Or is it relative to the ENTIRE map?

    ALSO, do any of you have links/pics of how far you spread your cities out? If my culture over lays on a tile, does that mean it will supply the closest city?? Ive just been laying them by the perfect square the AI gives me when I hit "G" on my settler. THANKS!

    Kiss De :king:
     
  9. Baldyr

    Baldyr "Hit It"

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    The minimap only shows the area of the map that you've discovered thus far, until you discover Calendar. That Tech will center your minimap and it will also be in scale.

    City spacing is situational, as is most issues. Every city should get some great land to work, otherwise they are practically a waste of maintenance. If that means that your cities will be 3 tiles or 10 tiles apart is of no consequence. (Well, building far apart adds to the maintenance.)

    Your cities will automatically hook up trade routes to each other (and to rival cities with Open Borders) and share resources once you build a "trade network" connecting them. This can consist of roads, rivers or coastlines (the latter two with Sailing). Later on (with Astronomy) you can also trade over oceans. Culture has nothing to do with it.

    Note that corruption (and waste) is a thing of the past. As is maintenance for buildings (city improvements). Instead there is City Maintenance that increase with number of cities, their distance to the capital and also their size. You combat this with a Courthouse or an additional center of government (Forbidden Palace or Versailles). The State Property civic will also help tremendously.

    And you no longer pay unit upkeep in shields and they aren't associated with cities. There are maintenance costs in :gold: though, and units outside your borders will cost additional :gold:.
     

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