AI after the april update

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by frutiemax, Apr 24, 2021.

  1. ThunderLizard2

    ThunderLizard2 Warlord

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    My view as well. At this stage, highly doubtful AI will get any improvements.
     
  2. bitula

    bitula Prince

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    OH yes it is! I think it is this simple! I've played 8 games in a row, and never they improved more than a single resource, which so cannot be traded in the early to mid game. Only later on (maybe) with a certain tech - when it is already too late - they will start improving as mentioned in the bug report thread. It's a very simple bug IMO. Very simple to reproduce and fix IMO. Also I didn't find anything varying in the reports. Can you point me to an example, where anyone would claim that AI actually does improve luxury in the early game with corp game mode on?

    I agree with this. Deity AI is much harder to beat now, even with this bug in place. But I sorta don't wanna play any more until they fix this extremely glaring bug... Btw, I don't think AI is braindead, its just buggy.
     
  3. V. Soma

    V. Soma long time civ fan

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  4. Leucarum

    Leucarum Emperor

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    I saw the AI use planes for what I think might be the first time yesterday. Not particularly effectively but still.
     
  5. Pietato

    Pietato Platonic Perfection

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    I just fought a 50 turn war with Lautaro. It was absolutely brutal because I was in a classical golden age (I was going hard religion as Khmer) and he never stopped sending units (he had god of the forge). It was initially my warriors, archers and Hercules against Horsemen, archers and early catapults. He backed away anything that was severely hurt, focus fired cities with catapults, and used horsemen to snipe my units and try to finish cities. His reinforcements then started to include swordsmen after I added spearmen, and eventually man at arms started coming. The deity bonus plus his golden age killing really, really hurt, and he would sometimes one shot my units. Oh, and zombies kept appearing throughout the battles. After I could afford it, I paid Gandhi to attack his western border thinking he would be a minor distraction; but he actually sent in a massive combined army of elephants, spearmen and catapults, freeing Muscat which Lautaro took at the start of the war.

    Eventually the war ended exactly where we started, except now it is turn 100 and I have wasted a lot of time. I also lost around 7 archers, 4 horsemen and 4 spearmen and all but 1 warrior (he would one shot the archers and warriors with crazy horsemen flanks) as I had to sacrifice units to save cities.

    While this was happening, I was still buying settlers with faith, so I ended up with 8 cities, 50 sci and 130 culture (Kumasi and prasats are nuts). However, I just found voidsinger Spain, who has 300 science and 150 culture, and is on the other side of the world from me (huge, continents with islands). So now I am going to kill Byzantium with my horde while I spread my religion into Mapuche lands (I enhanced crusader to counter him), because he took over some city-states.

    Moral of the story: kill Lautaro before you hit a golden age. Also barb quads hunt in giant packs.
     
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  6. darko82

    darko82 Emperor

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    I am extremely sad to say this, but this game has no AI. It can't even handle the game mechanics. It can't understand the game, logic, nothing.

    And the fact that they blocked very talented modders to fix it makes me even more sad.

    They decided to sell more new content such as: new leaders animations, new units, some new alternative game modes. The price is about the same as for the original game.

    I won't continue this here because I am not sure if I can do it here.
     
  7. James_Champagne

    James_Champagne Warlord

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    And a fair amount of those were already recycled from previous leader animations!
     
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  8. RDomico

    RDomico Warlord

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    I played one game on prince. I was way ahead at the end of the game. I had giant death robots. One of my AI opponents was way behind me in tech. They suddenly declared a surprise was on me. I don't recall that happening before. I've never seen an AI declare a surprise war late in the game when it was basically suicide for them.

    Not sure if that is good AI or bad AI, but it seems like different AI
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2021
  9. NukeAJS

    NukeAJS King

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    Is the AI good? No.

    Has it been getting better? I think yes. It could just be me, but it seems like each patch from the new frontier pass has tweaked the AI to be slightly better.
     
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  10. Melkus

    Melkus Chieftain

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    My first full game with this patch (Immortal, quick pace, but with slightly slowed tech, barbs and corps) was a fun one, until the end at least. I took Spain, started in the middle of a huge continent - so Spain's shiny new toys didn't help as much as I thought and I started to fall behind. The Incans to the north were quite strong and aggressive, but as a good defensive civ (Combat strength against other religions plus Defender Of the faith) I held my own in several wars and stayed in the race by my fingernails.
    There was a great end game shaping up, almost everybody went to the moon while I was scrambling for spaceports.

    But then everyone just stopped while I casually moved past them, completing a tech every other turn.
    Here I'm about to take the lead:
    20210428122514_1.jpg
    and this is the state of the space race a turn before my eventual victory:
    20210428125019_1.jpg
    Yawn.
    My opponents have managed one ride to Mars while it feels like I have stolen their victory. I didn't need spies, and I could mostly ignore military as it didn't feel like they would stage a meaningful attack (the Incans could have, they look dangerous, but they would have to deal with a huge alliance that wasn't exactly hard to put together - the AI practically begged for it).

    Most of this is a lack of infrastructure (or outright self-sabotage) - look at my biggest space rival China killing their capital production with solar farms:
    20210428130007_1.jpg

    There's just a lack of tension, danger and intrigue in the second half, as you can rely on the tepidness and stupidity of late game AI. Most of the mechanics they have piled on in the endgame are fun and pretty, but they're inconsequential.

    The one thing that could help here is an integrated victory - a 250 turn score race would have been interesting:
    20210428125837_1.jpg
    but that doesn't take spaceships, diplo points and tourism strength into account, so a big chunk of the game is pointless in a pure score race.
    It's a frustrating state of affairs - the game feels so close to greatness, but it can't get out of city builder mode in single player.
     

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  11. Casworon

    Casworon Prince

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    Turn 250 score victory idea is an interesting one.

    Hopefully somone can come up with a good idea of how to mod victory progress into the score, so tourism etc has an effect on it.

    But yeah, without AI DLL modding I think Civ VI is very sadly dead for me. And I dont think I'll be buying civ VII. So this might well be the end of my path with what has always been my favourite game franchise.

    Now civ VI is (possibly but likely) completely finished I cant see any reason why I would want to play it over Civ V Vox Populi or the Endless Legend Community Patch.

    If only that DLL release existed
     
  12. Stringer1313

    Stringer1313 Emperor

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    uh oh great. Alliances are way too easy to get as it is; they blindly recommit to renewing alliances and it's just a diplo victory roflstomp
     
  13. Uberfrog

    Uberfrog Deity

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    It’s disappointing that the AI forgets what it’s doing halfway to science victory. I wonder if you are right, and if the solar plants are what’s going wrong here. Or whether it’s just dodgy production priorities.

    You know this is entirely possible right? I do it every game.

    If you want a challenging end game, I highly recommend reducing the number of turns from the default based on game speed. The 200–300 range is appropriate for Standard speed, depending on how much you want to push yourself.

    The 500 turn default has always been ludicrously arbitrary, the game simply isn’t designed to last that long.
     
  14. Melkus

    Melkus Chieftain

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    Yes, it's a variety of problems (priorities and lack of raw production numbers), the solar plants were just a glaring example in the screenshot. There are also many shortcuts in the space race (great people, the laser stuff etc.) the AI doesn't always use efficiently. They can surprise in the right circumstances, it's just unstable.
    My exoplanet expedition would have taken five turns to produce (and I used a great scientist to finish it immediately) while the Chinese one still takes 10 turns at the end - with the huge prod bonus from Immortal.

    The late game AIs also got distracted by dumb wars, razing city states for no reason etc., but I have less problems with that. A bit of roleplay is welcome.
    But they had a lead of up to 10 techs in the modern era - and it didn't feel like an epic catchup or some devious manipulation, I just calmly increased my science and built the space projects.
     
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  15. Casworon

    Casworon Prince

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    Its definitely something I am going to experiment with. Think I'll put it too 200. However I think some changes could be made to score victory to include other game elements than it does currently.

    At the moment the best strategy for score victory is just to go as wide as possible. Which makes each game feel a bit samey. Think the scoring needs some further balance to make 200 turn score victory games a bit more interesting.
     
  16. frutiemax

    frutiemax Warlord

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    At least, I'm not the only one that observed the problem Melkus has shown in his gameplay. We don't care about pirates, nor game royale, vampires?????, just give us the DLL so we can fix this AI.... Or just give us the modding tools to modify the AI i.e. override the behavior via lua scripting. Stop adding useless gameplay features that the AI won't be able to handle at all.
     
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  17. Futumch

    Futumch Calm as a Coma

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    Melkus, in that image, you have different hexes shaded according to whether the Builder can interact with them. Is that a mod or just an option I've never bothered to turn on?
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2021
  18. pokiehl

    pokiehl Emperor

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    It’s a mod on the Steam workshop called More Lenses. It’s an absolute must-have.
     
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  19. Futumch

    Futumch Calm as a Coma

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    Thanks Pokiehl. I'll have a look.
     
  20. frutiemax

    frutiemax Warlord

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    kupeCapital.PNG

    Cmon Kupe I know you can do better...
     

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