AI and Pantheons after June Patch

[Infixo]

I have reviewed the situation with pantheons' scoring after the June Patch hoping (slightly) that maybe my Real Balanced Pantheons mod would no longer be needed. Nope. The patch not only did not fix anything in regards to AI scoring but also introduced 2 new bugs that heavily hinder AI.

Short version.
1. Initiation Rites pantheon is scored absurdly high (3000+) and now is the top choice for AI. There is something seriously wrong with the DISPERSAL modifiers used here.
2. God of Craftsmen got infected with the same bug as Earth Goddess has and AI counts all tiles in the city as suitable. So, basically after settling a city it is scored as 94 * 7 = 658. The culprit is a new modifier used here. In RBP I used old modifiers and fixed it.
3. Earth Goddess is still improperly scored (tile's appeal is ignored), but since this time a tile gives 2x more yields - its scoring is twice as high.
4. Fundamental design issue - AI scores only the current situation not looking into future - no change here.
5. Adjacency pantheons still produce wonky scorings - no change here.

More details here:
[1.0.0.328] Issues with AI scoring Pantheons

 

[oSiyeza]

I have reviewed the situation with pantheons' scoring after the June Patch hoping (slightly) that maybe my Real Balanced Pantheons mod would no longer be needed. Nope. The patch not only did not fix anything in regards to AI scoring but also introduced 2 new bugs that heavily hinder AI.

Short version.
1. Initiation Rites pantheon is scored absurdly high (3000+) and now is the top choice for AI. There is something seriously wrong with the DISPERSAL modifiers used here.
2. God of Craftsmen got infected with the same bug as Earth Goddess has and AI counts all tiles in the city as suitable. So, basically after settling a city it is scored as 94 * 7 = 658. The culprit is a new modifier used here. In RBP I used old modifiers and fixed it.
3. Earth Goddess is still improperly scored (tile's appeal is ignored), but since this time a tile gives 2x more yields - its scoring is twice as high.
4. Fundamental design issue - AI scores only the current situation not looking into future - no change here.
5. Adjacency pantheons still produce wonky scorings - no change here.

More details here:
[1.0.0.328] Issues with AI scoring Pantheons

Wow that is a bit of a shame. Will you update your mod to work with the new pantheons? That one and Real Strategy were the two mods I never played without before the update.

Someone has also reported that the 20% bonus or penalty for researching a tech before or after the world age has been removed. I hope by accident. Cause that single feature achievied a tech balance for the AI.

PS: I think a cool feature for your Real strategy mod would be to include a higher value on those settings for research outside the world era. Maybe 40 or 50%. This way, it would be much easier for the civs to be in a simmilar tech level. Without tampering too much with any mechanic.

Ps2: I hope firaxis iron these issues and also balance the desproportionate effort the AI gives to aid requests. That is a serious balance issue that auto cripples the AI and cannot be modded right now.

 

[Minou]

Thanks for posting this @Infixo

That's depressing. The Pantheon re-balance was the most exciting thing about the patch for me, but seems to be shaping up that the AI is always going to take the worst one and we will just all take Religious Settlements every game.

I understand it might be difficult for the AI to "look in to the future" and see what tiles might be valuable later in the game for Pantheon balance. Why not just code them to select one at random? That would not be optimal, but much better than this crap. And for that matter, how about random selection of Religious beliefs too? It is so boring that they take them in exactly the same order every game, totally removes the motivation to rush for an early prophet. It drives me crazy how Firaxis keeps rolling out these oddly specific tweaks like adding one hammer to the still useless Workshop and letting deserts have names, but ignores easy to fix but obviously broken things.

@oSiyeza I was under the impression that they removed the penalty for researching later era techs because they increased the raw costs of those techs in the patch. So they cost about the same overall I think, assuming the player is usually researching ahead of world era from mid-game onwards.

 

[Infixo]

Will you update your mod to work with the new pantheons?

It's updated

I think a cool feature for your Real strategy mod would be to include a higher value on those settings for research outside the world era. Maybe 40 or 50%.

I think this 20% is quite ok, bigger values would feel too artificial, imo. I think the problem with the game pacing are "holes" in the tech tree, i.e. the fact that techs are so loosely coupled that they allow for stupid beelining. My first mod (Real Tech Tree) was actually created to address this issue. Once the tech tree is a bit more "tight", neither you nor AI can fast track too far ahead and the progress feels much more immersive and natural.

I understand it might be difficult for the AI to "look in to the future" and see what tiles might be valuable later in the game for Pantheon balance

It is ofc more difficult than simple assessment of as-is. But not impossible - it just needs a different approach which wasn't programmed by devs in the first place. And at this stage of the game's development I think it never will be.

I was under the impression that they removed the penalty for researching later era techs because they increased the raw costs of those techs in the patch

The increase was roughly 10%. If you take into consideration the extra yields added at the same time (T3 buildings, etc.) it basically cancels out.

 

[Kurnn]

Odd.

The changes has been awesome to me. I play with the mod "Religion Expanded", because I love to have 12 civs or more.
I havnt seen any of the issues you post about. But I dont see any problem about each Pantheon getting more specialisted.
Dont use "real Strategy" yes. It SEAMS to be some arguements with that mod and the latest game update.

What the AI gets, I put no value on. I play on Immortal, because it suits me.

Are you sure you dont have a mod that interfears?
Since there are so many different things that adds value to, everything possible, I think you focus a bit much on the Pantheons.