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AI attacking with no warning

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by ZeekLTK, Feb 21, 2013.

  1. ZeekLTK

    ZeekLTK Warlord

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    So I was playing on a fractal map and somehow ended up starting all alone on a decent sized island (big enough to build 7 cities with good spacing between them!)

    Since no one could even threaten me until they discover galleons, I completely ignored building military units and instead am trying to win a cultural victory (which would be the first time I ever do that! :lol:)

    But anyways, I saw the AI started to get galleons, but no one was really bothering me, so I continued to build structures instead of military (am even running the pacifist civic to maximize income!).

    However, all of a sudden without warning Tokugawa shows up on the outskirts of my shores with 3 galleons loaded with like 5 catapults, 2 knights, and 1 crossbowman.

    Gee, I wonder what he's up to... :rolleyes:

    This sucks that it happened without warning because I only have 6 warriors and 1 musketman in all of my cities combined. So this is going to be interesting... I basically have 2 turns to build my defenses (1 turn for him to land, 2nd he'll attack). Gonna switch to nationhood/slavery and draft/whip as many riflemen as I can. Here's to hoping it works :rockon: :ar15:
     
  2. Tatran

    Tatran Deity

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    1) Was he the first leader you've encountered?
    If so, you can't see if he is preparing for a war until you've met more leaders.
    2) Also, the AI decides to go to war before the first trading, no matter if your relationship got a boost at the end.
    (Happened to me with Joao, who doesn't plot at pleased, but he still did.)
    3) It's also possible a leader will dow out of the blue, but it's very rare. (Montezuma comes to mind)
    4) A few events can also cause war.
     
  3. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    Pretty pointless unless you are actually making use of it.


    As for the topic, what kind of warning were you expecting? "Hi, I"m Toku, I'm gonna keeeel you soon"

    Are you using BUG? If so, you see a red fist. If not, you can talk to any AI and see if they are in WHEOOHRN mode. (although, as mentioned above, you have to no more than one AI and they have to know each other to see WHEOOHRN mode)

    As Tatran mention, "dagger" attacks are possible.

    Sounds like you need to work on your diplo. Were you in a religion
     
  4. Sisiutil

    Sisiutil All Leader Challenger

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    The choice in Civ IV is as follows. Either (a) build and maintain an effective military regardless of the map situation or (b) display an awesome mastery of the game's diplomacy algorithms.

    If you know you're not a master diplomat, build your military. In many ways an isolated start is more dangerous because you don't have the opportunity in the early game to build alliances and/or wipe out/weaken a rival. It is entirely possible (even likely), with an isolated start, to meet an AI leader who is immediately determined to wipe you off the map simply because you are suddenly the easiest target upon it.
     
  5. vincentz

    vincentz Programmer

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    You have been....

    Spoiler :

    Cortés'ed!!!

     
  6. ZeekLTK

    ZeekLTK Warlord

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    I had actually met all 8 other civs, but Toku was only cautious towards me and we were even trading some items, so it was a bit of a surprise that he shows up with his ships and all of a sudden is "annoyed" for no reason (it's like it changed to annoyed that turn, just so that he could justify declaring war). I guess I was expecting him to declare war before he actually loaded up a ship and was right on my borders.

    I was able to draft 4 + gold rush 1 + whip 1 + upgrade 1 warrior = 7 riflemen on 1 turn and then I drafted 4 + whipped 1 more for 12 total riflemen by the time he was fully landed. Easily defeated his 8 troops and then...

    Genghis Kahn shows up, he's got a boat full of guys too. I send all my troops to that side of the island and easily kill him off as soon as he lands, but...

    Then a few turns later, Peter shows up on the other side of the island with a boat full of cossacks. Same thing, doesn't declare war until he's at my border. I deal with him the same. By now I've drafted like 16 riflemen and have built/whipped/upgraded about 5-6 more so these attacks of 6-9 aren't doing a damn thing except annoying me.

    But then Isabella shows up on the same side Peter came from. Okay wtf, is everyone going to test their luck here? Three guys already got their asses kicked, so sure why not send another? lol

    So this time I lined my entire coast with riflemen so that there was literally NOWHERE to land. She actually tried to amphibiously assault me instead LOL - she lost all her units attacking just 1 rifleman and then turned her ships around and left without even stepping foot on my soil. :crazyeye:

    After they stopped "refusing to talk to me" I was able to get Isabella, Genghis, and Tokugawa to sign a peace treaty (Isabella actually gave me prizes for signing it, I must have really hurt her pride), but Peter refuses to sign and he keeps sending a boatload over every couple turns, which promptly gets destroyed upon landing, so not sure why he thinks he still has a shot. I sent a small (3 man) group over to his island and pillaged a ton of stuff before he finally got rid of them, but he still won't agree to peace... ugh. All I want to do is build a few more things and then cruise to a cultural victory. Damn AI! :mad: ;)
     
  7. damerell

    damerell Slow Worker

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    Why? If you're planning to attack from transports, do you telegraph your intentions to the AI?

    Start burning down cities until they capitulate.
     
  8. Funky

    Funky Emperor

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    Sounds like you have some darn impressive island there! :D

    Since you apparently have a tech lead and now also enough troops, being at war is not such a bad thing. After the initial stack is defeated, your units can feast on the trickles of units sent by the AI and gain easy experience. And your diplomatic relations with other enemies of Peter will improve. Just make sure he doesn't pillage your sea food. And make sure war weariness doesn't get too harsh. Who has the Zeus statue in your game?
     
  9. capnvonbaron

    capnvonbaron Democratia gladii

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    You got lucky I'd say! I'd probably just draft the crap out of the non-Legendary cities and let them throw boatloads of units at me. You apparently have a tech advantage on them.

    As to the why, many aggressive leaders will simply declare war for the sole reason that you are a pitifully easy target. Toku is a classic example. My bet is, he just saw his power rating was like 5x yours, and at that level Toku is pretty much programmed to go into attack mode. Ghengis too... Peter and Izzy probably just attacked you because you were a different religion.

    Glad you made it though. All too often, the AI just shows up from a long ways away and attacks directly off the boat. I've lost many a' city that way. Since then I've learned to garrison the city thats closest to an opponent the heaviest, since even on naval assaults the AI tends to go for the closest city to their landmass. If you suspect an attack is going to occur from an AI that is pleased with you, you can try begging 10 gold from them and if they accept you get an automatic ten turn peace treaty to arm yourself. I've done this before and even seen the offending AI land the troops anyways, then the treaty expires, they declare war, and BOING! All the troops auto-transport to a land unknown :D
     
  10. digitalcraft

    digitalcraft Warlord

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    Did Peter hate you beforhand? It's possible he bribed the others in to war.
     
  11. nfw

    nfw King

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    Well, that's what you get for being weak militarily, though the AI is horrible at inter-continental warfare, so you are pretty safe.

    If they only have galleons, you can counter with privateers and sink them without declaring war.
     
  12. capnvonbaron

    capnvonbaron Democratia gladii

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    HA! Clever. Why didn't I ever think of that??

    I guess usually the galleons are escorted by a crazy stack of caravels... or frigates... but I guess if you had enough privateers you might be able to do that

    Seems like a valid strategy for Prince or lower... above Monarch, doubtful.
     
  13. YallerDawg

    YallerDawg Chieftain

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    What do you mean by privateer? I'm pretty new to the whole civ universe and I don't see privateer in the manual.
     
  14. s.bernbaum

    s.bernbaum Mostly lurking

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    If you are playing BTS, the privateer is a type of sailing ship that becomes available after Astronomy. (not sure - going by memory here - but I think it is the same tech as the one that gives you frigates) If you are playing vanilla, there are no privateers.
     
  15. Sisiutil

    Sisiutil All Leader Challenger

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    You need Astronomy and Chemistry. Privateers are not readily identifiable as associated with the civ that spawned them, so they can attack other civ's ships without declaring war. They can also pillage fishing and whaling boats and blockade cities. They're fun! :goodjob:

    At least they are until someone else gets Chemistry and starts building Frigates... :sad:
     
  16. capnvonbaron

    capnvonbaron Democratia gladii

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    Just to clarify, Privateers appear in the Beyond the Sword expansion. If you aren't playing BtS, you need to reevaluate your civ habits.
     
  17. ZeekLTK

    ZeekLTK Warlord

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    Yes, I somehow managed to found Islam, so I was the only one who was that religion. It was kinda odd - each religion was apparently founded by a different civ, so everyone was a different religion except the handful who didn't found any religion - they were all Hindus lol.

    This was the setup:

    Me (China) - Islam*
    England - Confusionist*
    Incas - Buddist*
    Egypt - Jewish*
    Mongols - Christian*
    Spain - Hindu*
    Russia - Hindu
    Japan - Hindu
    Persia - Hindu

    *Founder

    The setup was also that I was on my own island, Incas were on their own island, Egypt/Mongols/England were on one continent, Russia/Persia/Spain/Japan were on another continent.

    So I was working on building missionaries to send and try and convert people. England and Persia were the "most friendly" towards me (at "cautious", lol), so I was trying to get them first. I did manage to convert England for a bit (she eventually went back to her old one though), but Persia just wouldn't. And then the wars started, so I switched to "no religion" and that helped calm everything down.

    I did have a slight tech lead, but it wasn't for long. Pretty soon Incas showed up with infantry, destroyers, and transporters to attack me and I still only had rifles/galleons so that was what prompted me to switch to "no religion" and try to make more friends. I did manage to fight off the Incas, but I knew if they kept attacking me I'd be screwed (they were the most powerful in the game) so I somehow bribed Egypt (2nd most powerful) to declare war on Incas AND Russia with me, and then Mongols attacked me again, so I bribed England to declare war on them. And then when everything calmed down for a bit, I signed a defensive pact with Egypt, England, and Persia - so no one else wanted to attack me and have to fight all 4 of us, and that let me build in peace to eventually win a cultural victory. :goodjob:
     
  18. nfw

    nfw King

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    What I find is that the AIs seem to use 1 city as his naval invasion stage point, so you can concentrate all your privateers at that one place, and sink any caravel or galleon trying to get into that city, that tend to forestall his invasion, at least make him sink many more hammers into ship building.
     
  19. PhantomRaptor

    PhantomRaptor Chieftain

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    This sounds like what happened to me once, except in very late game.
    I had two civs above me in score, the Persians and the Arabs. I knew they would have a strong military and I'm not the most warlike leader in the world so I buttered them up as much as I could - I think I had Saladin on Friendly and Darius on Pleased. I was just beginning to adjust to peace after my on-and-off wars with the Koreans and the Khmer when suddenly, out of the blue, both Saladin and Darius declare war on me and nuke me into oblivion before sending in troops that could crush my cities, unlike the Korean troops that had managed to land on my continent before.
    Note to self: If they're above you, don't trust them. Have a good military even if you're not planning war.
    I never did finish that game. I could see where it was going.

    I'm new here, by the way, and you've probably already guessed I'm a BTS player, although I have played the original in the past. Hi.
     
  20. damerell

    damerell Slow Worker

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    It's always vexing to have spent effort and resources that could have gone on military buildup on diplomacy, and then end up at war anyway; in particular, you'll bitterly regret every tech you ever donated. There is a certain temptation next game to forget diplomacy and try and stab them first [1].

    Someone who likes you but likes everyone can often be a bit risky. If they loathe someone, they may keep coming around with demands to break trade and go to war, but at least you know they aren't taking that someone's bribes to attack you.

    [1] and in my view the bit of this to take to heart is to always be looking for someone to stab.
     

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