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AI attitude after patch

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by kaltorak, Jun 29, 2011.

  1. kaltorak

    kaltorak Emperor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2009
    Messages:
    1,522
    Location:
    Madrid
    Short version: still crazy

    Long version:

    -I start with 3 neightbours. arabs, greeks and iroquois

    -My plan is to be as friendly as possible with everybody, but if somebody is hated, go against him too to please the others.

    -Iriquois start beeing hated by the other 2, so I focus on pleaseing the others and refuse everything from them. I become friends with arabs and greeks and hostile with iriquois.

    -Iriquois and greeks start a war. I keep refusing deals with iriquois and pleaseing the other two.

    -My Greek "friends" declare war on me (no backstab), while they still are at war with iriquois...

    -Iriqois change to friendly because we share a war

    -My arab "friends" demand ALL my money, and when I refuse, they switch to hostile. I mean, I don't mind spending some money or resources on relations, actually i like it, but asking for all my money is not asking for a gift, its looking for trouble

    -My army is doing fine against the greeks since they are also fighting the iriquois

    -My iriquois "friends" declare on me (backstab) ...

    -Greeks and iriquois make peace.

    -I have to retreat and they send both his armies to my lands

    -When they are going to start the attack and destroy me, i try to ask for peace and greeks accepts, with no cost...

    -arabs declare on me

    ...



    Seriously, I try to play after each patch, but this game is still a crazy deathmatch. Give leaders personalities. This "playing for winning" is: 1. Not fun and 2. not working
     
  2. Gali

    Gali Prince

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Messages:
    543
    How big was your army. I noticed in my last game everybody declared on me until I built up a decent force after that, diplomacy was okay. AI attitude is now heavily weighted toward Military strength and the new patch lets them bust out more military than before. I have had decently friendly games under the old patch before modifiers, so if you're decent in army it'll be fine.
     
  3. MoonFlare

    MoonFlare Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2010
    Messages:
    303
    Location:
    Luna
    Last game Oda backstabbed me 2 times and declared war on me without backstabbing 2-3 times. And i had superior military(on Prince).After each war he was friendly for a few turns. That's one crazy AI.
     
  4. Grassland Farm

    Grassland Farm Warlord

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2011
    Messages:
    214
    Location:
    Le mighty motherland France
    If you had a tiny army, AIs will dow you, no matter if you are a good guy...
     
  5. Dymonic Inc

    Dymonic Inc Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2011
    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    Absolutely. If the AI perceives you as weak and not being able to defend yourself, they will take the opportunity unless you have some crazy loyal civ allied.. I've been back stabbed more than ever in the past 24 hours, but playing cultural victory I have a tiny defensive army.
     
  6. Simplicity4

    Simplicity4 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2006
    Messages:
    70
    They should really make this explicit. The leaders should just come out and say:

    "Sorry, but your empty garrisons are just too tempting a target"

    Make the AI behavior explicit to the user rather than seem like it's the result of a pachinko ball. They did it for backstab (yay!), they should do it for this scenario too.
     
  7. SammyKhalifa

    SammyKhalifa Deity

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2003
    Messages:
    6,019
    Really? It seems pretty obvious at that point doesn't it? It's attacking you because it thinks it can win.
     
  8. blasto

    blasto Prince

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2010
    Messages:
    424
    I think I have had a lot less DOW from the AI since the patch...so its been the opposite for me.
     
  9. Keejus

    Keejus Prince

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2011
    Messages:
    311
    Location:
    Denmark
    I've been playing as Polynesia, and I ended up on a continent with Rome and America, while the other continent had 7 civs. Everyone was friends with everyone, except France, who everyone had denounced, and Denmark/Spain, who were at war. They made peace and then declared friendship, though. Suddenly, Russia declared war on Mongolia, which eventually caused the other civs to denounce Russia. 50 or so turns after, every member of the Friend block declares war on Russia, simultaneously. It was pretty awesome to watch.

    On my continent, America openly backstabbed me ("Your wanton aggression leaves us no choice!"), but I got my good buddy Rome into it and he's pretty much trouncing Georgie for me. We'll have to see if he'll use his position to backstab me in spite of our friendship, but so far, I like the AI
     
  10. Pazyryk

    Pazyryk Deity

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2008
    Messages:
    3,584
    Yes, seems like perfectly reasonable (i.e., realistic/historical) behavior IF one is trying to play without an army. Would have been nice if the OP included this information.

    (Edit: It IS possible to play and win without an army. However, one needs to know that this will cause the behavior in the OP and be prepared for it.)
     
  11. bronzeager

    bronzeager Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2011
    Messages:
    89
    Location:
    WA
    I'm liking the increased hostility. It also seems more purposeful than before...the AI backstabs you because it wants to kill you. If it thinks it has an advantage in befriending you, it does so. Otherwise, here come the armies to your borders...
     
  12. Sonereal

    Sonereal ♫We got the guillotine♫ Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2008
    Messages:
    14,896
    Everything the AI did in my game post-patch made sense. Everybody was friendly for a while. Iroquois became a weak-link so Ottomans invaded. Ottomans finished off Iroquois, everybody hates them, global peace over.

    After I smashed into Egypt and took a couple of cities and decimated their armies, the Ottomans declared war a few turns later to take a chunk of Egypt. It makes sense. If you're weak, you'll get killed. Period.
     
  13. jdog5000

    jdog5000 Revolutionary

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2003
    Messages:
    2,601
    Location:
    California
    The other question is what the OP means by "become friends" with the two other civs. If you don't have a DoF in place, then the "Friendly" in the diplo listing is meaningless ... think of it as "Polite", it doesn't imply any kind of friendship at all.

    If there was a DoF in place, then Alexander would not have declared war (or at least it would have been a backstab). Alexander cannot be trusted, his version of "Friendly" is just a cover for a knife to the back most of the time.
     
  14. PoweredBySoy

    PoweredBySoy Warlord

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2004
    Messages:
    132
    Location:
    Mnpls, Minnesota
    This patch is <snip> horrible. The "friendly" AI is declaring war on me left and right. I don't mind increased aggression, but if you're going to do that don't declare AI's as friendly. Wtf is the point of diplomacy anymore? I might as well just play Oda every game.

    Moderator Action: Watch the language, please.
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
  15. basmannen

    basmannen Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2011
    Messages:
    112
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Sweden
    Has a country ever invaded another because it had a small army? Seems more likely to do the opposite...
     
  16. Gamewizard

    Gamewizard Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    1,234
    Like many have said already, you need to have a couple DoF's, but not too many or else you'll be in trouble when "Your friends found a reason to denounce you!" That will cause a chain reaction of everybody denouncing you and then eventual DoW's. If one of your friends denounces somebody, follow suit to build your already strong relationship with that friend. Plus, never refuse tribute, give back barb captured workers, expand slowly and away from your friends or else they will get ticked off and backstab you. As soon as you have an extra copy of a luxury, trade it to your friend, even if they don't have the full payment, cause you know they will eventually demand it anyways. Keep a decent sized army to ward off DoW's (I try to keep mine above the average strength found in demographics). If your game score gets higher than everybody else, everyone will see you as a threat, so be careful!
     
  17. Pac-Dragon

    Pac-Dragon Destroyer of Worlds

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2003
    Messages:
    107
    Really? There are countless historical examples. Here's one:

    http://www.kwintessential.co.uk/articles/article/Italy/Italy-Invades-Ethiopia-/3626

     
  18. Calouste

    Calouste Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2006
    Messages:
    2,725
    Well, there was this minor incident about 72 years ago.

    And other than that a few hunderd more instances in history. What do you think the Spanish were doing in South America for example?
     
  19. Sonereal

    Sonereal ♫We got the guillotine♫ Supporter

    Joined:
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    Yes. All the time throughout the whole of human civilization. Case-in-point, the Age of Colonialism and later Imperialism.
     
  20. GoodSarmatian

    GoodSarmatian Jokerfied Western Male

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2006
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    Diplomacy seems to have become even worse.
    I'm on a continent with five other civs and every singl one of them has attacked me.
    Two tried to rush me and were wiped out, one backstabbed me but I settled for reparations (all their gold and luxuries) because there was as another civ between us and didn't want to always have open borders for my trade routes. Later the other two backstabbed me.
    All while being friendly and openly acknowledging in their DOW that they may not stand a chance.
    The worst thing is that they aren't even exploiting a weakness: I have the largest army in the world, plus a human brain which allows me to conquer civs with armies more than twice as large as mine.
    When I read the patch notes I thought it's nice there are finally modifiers for trades, requests and wars again common enemies, but it seems the only thing that's changed is text.
    They still attack for no reason other than suicide.
     

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