AI cannot handle peace treaty/MA combo (anymore)?

[Grille]

In two instances, I had signed peace including a MA vs another civ.
However, about 20(!) turns later, my new (comparably weak) allies decided to sign peace with our enemy. Logically, our former peace deal was broken, but it looked like they 'forgot' to first re-negotiate our peace deal ("always re-negotiate..." checked, btw).
What is more, I often get pop-ups like "A and B signed peace", directly followed by "A declared war on C" which seems to show similar treaty set ups (peace plus MA) between AI civs.

Formerly, after 20 turns, the allied ai would first re-negotiate the peace deal with me (plain peace treaty) and then possibly make peace negotiations with the other (enemy) civ. At least I think this was a very common AI-behaviour in vanilla.

Not sure, but I now have the impression that the AI has problems to stick to the 'correct' order of negotiating with other civs. Or was it always like that?

Anyone made a peace agreement including a MA in C3C?

 

[TheNiceOne]

Are you sure that this didn't happen less than 20 turns after your PT/MA deal? Your alliance partner may then have decided to breakl your MA, and "forgot" that the MA was linked to the peace treaty as well: Breaking the MA (which AIs do now and then) automatically breaks the peace treaty.

Similarily, if the civ that you had alliance against had been eliminated, the MA would be void and thus the peace treaty linked to it would be broken.

So be vary of signing a peace treaty together with an MA.

Btw, if this is what happened to you, it has not changed from PTW.

 

[Grille]

Well, I know the risks of peace/MA combo.
And this...

Similarily, if the civ that you had alliance against had been eliminated, the MA would be void and thus the peace treaty linked to it would be broken.

...is (was) usually the main thing to worry about; at least what your reputation is concerned.

Of course, the AI likes to break plain MA treaties. But in case of peace/MA combo, I never saw an ally signing peace with our enemy (and thereby breaking our peace treaty) when the natural expiration limit was almost reached (hmm, in fact, I don't even remember that they ever broke it by signing peace). Such a combo was usually a very strong bond. That is, I cannot remember such an incident happening to me in vanilla before. If they'd signed an extra MA or MPP or just sneak-attacked - ok.

I'm not sure if it was already 20 turns or just 19 - it's just that I suspect that the ai negotiation order has somehow changed (then it would be close to a bug) or if my ally just 'forgot' the deal linkage (respectively was bribed with nice offers).
My suspicion mainly derives from intel pop-ups like so-and-so signed peace... followed by so-and-so declared war... which I got pretty much often lately - that *could* have been exactly the same thing between ai civs.

Maybe this all happened accidentally - maybe not, that's why I'm interested in players who did actually sign some peace/MA treaty combo in C3C and possibly observed the same.

 

[SuperBettaFish]

I signed an MA with Peace Treaty with an AI once. However, when our common enemy was wiped out by the AI, he declared war on me because the MA was over. I laughed because I had all my troops in his territory and killed him easily.

 

[Grille]

Yeah - that's exactly the risk TNO was pointing at.

In my examples, despite of my enemies having quite a respectable number cities left anyways, one enemy had a one-tile-island (amphibious warfare wasn't discovered yet - although leading civs were close; no vikings on map). In the other case the enemy had two enklaved cities (=in my territory, hence easy to block w/o ROPs signed); roughly estimated, I would not have expected that our enemy would get wiped out before the peace/MA combo expired.
I was just totally surprised that the estimation was right, nevertheless the peace/MA combo got broken by peace negotiations.

 

[TheNiceOne]

Originally posted by Grille
Of course, the AI likes to break plain MA treaties. But in case of peace/MA combo, I never saw an ally signing peace with our enemy (and thereby breaking our peace treaty) when the natural expiration limit was almost reached (hmm, in fact, I don't even remember that they ever broke it by signing peace). Such a combo was usually a very strong bond. That is, I cannot remember such an incident happening to me in vanilla before. If they'd signed an extra MA or MPP or just sneak-attacked - ok.

I know my MA allies have broken MAs several times, but I cannot remember to ever have had a MA linked to a peace treaty so I cannot say whether the AI is more likely to break such a combined treaty in C3C than before.

They should look out for such combinations though and try not to break the PT part unless they intend to.