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[R&F] AI city state murder

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by lqwertyp, Jan 26, 2018.

  1. lqwertyp

    lqwertyp Chieftain

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    Didn't find a threat regarding this in r&f, but mods, feel free to merge if so.

    When watching quills and marbozirs LPs, it seemed that the AI was extremely happy killing all the CS's again. Wasn't this a major problem of the summer update from last year? And did anybody else notice this when watching the LPs?

    Personally I don't like the AI killing al the CS's because it's a major mechanic in Civ6 to use CS's for envoys, bonusses etc. I hope Firaxis will fix this before the XP is released
     
    Tchuli, Zaarin, Kyro and 3 others like this.
  2. Mr Jon of Cheam

    Mr Jon of Cheam Prince

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    They definitely looked too aggressive towards CS in Quill's streams, I'd like to see it toned down.
     
  3. Uberfrog

    Uberfrog Deity

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    I don't really see this as necessarily being a problem - it's good strategy to conquer a City State whose bonus is irrelevant or uninteresting to you. A new city's a new city after all, especially if it comes with a free district... :viking:
     
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  4. aeacos

    aeacos Chieftain

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    I really think it was more of an issue of who was doing it, seemed like India with the alternative leader was very aggressive in all games in early eras
     
  5. lqwertyp

    lqwertyp Chieftain

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    I get this, but my point was that an AI that is too aggressive towards cs's, kills an important game mechanic. In quill's LP with the cree, there were No cs left after 80 turns

    In quills LP with the dutch, the cree (peacefull civ I think) conquered antioch, which wasn't even on their starting island
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2018
  6. leandrombraz

    leandrombraz Emperor

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    I hate this a lot. I think the likeneless for an AI to declare war on CS should be based on their personality. Should be okay and expected for a warmonger like Genghis Khan to declare war on its neighbor CSs but other leaders should either be very unlikely or moderate on their willingness to do it, some could even be protective of CSs, denouncing and declaring war on anyone who dares to conquer one (protectorate war if available) . Everyone conquering CSs in early game is just dumb.
     
  7. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Deity

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    Suppose you're playing Australia and don't want to use the capture-give-liberate exploit, if AIs don't kill city-states, how can you get the bonus?

    AI killing them is actually a good thing since it gives you a chance to liberate and get free envoys.(Also you can keep them if you don't find the CS interesting)
     
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  8. lqwertyp

    lqwertyp Chieftain

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    Would be awesome if you're a warmonger and care about winning fast. Since I don't care about winning fast and like to play peacefully, I don't like the AI killing all the cs's within a 100 turns
     
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  9. leandrombraz

    leandrombraz Emperor

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    It's a good thing if some CSs are captured. It's a problem if every Civ follow the exactly same pattern of capturing CSs, potentially leaving the game without a whole mechanic. Back in the Summer patch, I had games where the AI conquered almost all of the 16 CSs in the game, that's too much. I had to go on a liberation spree just to have CSs back in the game. As for free envoys, that depend on how much envoys you invested on that CS before it was captured, you might lose more than you get back.
     
  10. liv

    liv Emperor

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    Liberating city states is good it gives you envoys. I don't want any changes to how it is right now.
     
  11. shaglio

    shaglio The Prince of Dorkness

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    Except when you have a bunch of envoys in the CS, then it gets captured, then you liberate it and now only have a measly 3 envoys :(
     
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  12. liv

    liv Emperor

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    Declare protective war? Did they make that one come earlier?

    I am usually careful with where I put my envoys. If the city state survives the early ages it is relatively safe
     
  13. lqwertyp

    lqwertyp Chieftain

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    The point is that cs don't seem to survive the early ages in the preview build handed out to the youtubers. I actually think the system is fine now, i'm a little concerned what Will happen when the expansion is released
     
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  14. UWHabs

    UWHabs Deity

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    I don't mind everyone capturing the CS, but to counter that, it feels like they should up the default number of them. So if you start with 2 extra, then that at least means that later in the game a couple of them will still be around...
     
  15. tedhebert

    tedhebert Emperor

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    i disagree... I think CS should begin the game wih a wall... that way, they wouldn't be such easy peasy targets in the early game... I don't mind that AIs targets the CS, but it shouldn't be easy to conquer them... and neither should 75% of them disapear through AI conquest
     
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  16. pietro1990

    pietro1990 Prince

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    The problem i have with civ 6 AI that there aren't any personalities it seems every single AI loves to attack city states while in civ 5 only ghenghis khan montezuma harald atack city states. I did not see these flavor's back in civ 6

    If Ai is you're neighbour expect a surprise war in the ancient era or sometimes classical era.
    In civ 5 only certain Ai would be aggressive towards you others you are able to keep friendly at even if they are close.

    A big example of no flavor or personalities is the warmonger hate every single Ai hates you for being a warmonger. While in civ 5 atilla napoleon and some other leaders will overlook modest warmongering while other leaders will hate you even if you do the slightest thing wrong like ghandi. Others are mediocre And will only denounce you if you start a conquering lots of cities.

    it seems every single Ai behaves the same way except when it comes to their agenda.

    I would love to see some more diversity like for example if montezuma is you're neighbour prepare for war now you allways prepare far war if you have a neighbor.

    Where are the backstabbers and the peace mongers who love peace and hate person who attack city states where are the city state conquerers like atilla.. And so on.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
  17. leandrombraz

    leandrombraz Emperor

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    That's what Civ VI diplomacy miss the most, Civ V leaders had a Iot more personality. Things like likeliness to declare war on a CS or how much they tolerate warmongering are great ways to give each leader a personality. If everyone declare war on CS in the same way, it feels too automatic, like "hey, don't mind me capturing this CS, I was programmed to do it". It throw suspension of disbelief out of the window, it's hard to see a leader as a character when he act so much like a robot.
     
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  18. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Deity

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    Yeah I can understand Chandra taking out all the city states. In fact, I expect that of him and would be disappointed if he didn't. But the Cree in Quill's Dutch game taking that city state seemed strange. But they were out of room to expand, so it wasn't entirely without reason.

    I think what Firaxis may be doing is giving the human player something to do in the later game with regards to liberating these city states. But that's usually a bad move in my opinion, because I usually never hoard more than 3 envoys, but the ai could have 8 or 10 envoys saved up because of lack of city states to use them on, and you'll lose the Suzerain almost instantly. Firaxis should have a guarantee Suzerain for at least 30 turns, preferably 50 turns (on epic).

    Technically it was all the same landmass, it was just a weird shaped land mass with a bend in it, and the Cree had to sail there to get to it.

    This can be changed easily enough in the options.
     
  19. Thormodr

    Thormodr Servant of Civ Supporter

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    Agreed. You should be the guaranteed suzerain for a fixed amount of time after liberating them.
     
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  20. Zelda1983

    Zelda1983 Warlord

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    Yes,
    the liberator should get 6 or more envoys and other civs should be unable to send envoys for 20 turns or more.
     

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