AI Civ Relations

[Soryn Arkayn]

After playing through a few campaigns on Warlord difficulty, I decided to move up to Noble, but I've been having difficulties.

Probably the worst aggrevation is trying to establish good relations with the AI Civs. If I'm lucky I'll be able to establish Open Borders, but I'll rarely be permited Tech Trading, and that's a foundation of my early game strategy. I don't want to research every little tech -- I want to leap ahead Classical and Medieval techs and trade a single high tech for multiple low techs. But that's impossible when Civs won't trade with me, and for no good reason.

The absolute worst is when you're stuck on an island or continent with just one other Civ, which is what has happened the last few games. My last game I got stuck with Persia and they seem to be always disagreeable, so I had to research everything myself, which was so ridiculous because we took divergent research paths and if we'd just traded we would've both leapt ahead.

Also, it may be my imagination, but do Civs have arch-rival in Civ4? For example, I usually play as the Romans and every time I've played a game with the Spanish our relations have always been Annoyed and inevitably there's a war.

Playing a hunch, I looked in the game manual and read that Romans, Persians, and Spanish (or really their leaders) all share the Expansive trait. Is that why we're always rivals? Because I'd think that leaders sharing similar traits would get along, wouldn't they? Or perhaps certain traits aren't good to share, like Expansive (or Aggressive). After all, if both Civs are trying to expand they have conflicting interests.

But what it comes down to is I wish there was a way to improve relations with other Civs. I know that you can gift Civs certain things, but that isn't reliable. I've given Civs techs, resources, and gold, and it's done absolutely nothing to improve our relations. Whereas if I refuse to comply with a Civ's demands (be it to cancel deals with another Civ or give them a tech) they'll hold it against me for the rest of the game.

 

[Exavier]

I think the AI is designed to cause wars personally... just having a religion pisses them all off (usually unavoidable early game). But for tech trading i do know that you usually can't get them to trade a tech they just got (for a few turns anyway). That and i think its based on more then just their feelings toward you.

Also just so you know early game you need a specific tech to even trade tecnologies (Alphabet)... once you get that you should be able to trade with them (not sure if they need it too though)

 

[vmxa]

Well one of the things that annoy the leaders is when you are not using the same state religion. That is true also for civics.

On the relations screen it will flat tell you in red the things it find objectionable with you.

So in the early game, you should be able to share many of the civics at least. Peace and OPen Borders will also help.

You need the tech to be able to trade techs, so until you have it none can be done. Afterwards, if you get a better tech you should be able to get some of the skipped ones.

Just do not expect them to be quick to trade techs that offer wonders/units and religions. Eventually those techs will be offered.

In the end you cannot be friends with all the civs as there are too many civics and religions. If you are spiritual, you can often switch when asked to be on good terms and then switch back in 5 turns as you suffer no anarchy periods.

 

[Yzman]

If an AI is the only one to have a tech, they will never trade it, ever.

 

[Psyringe]

The game tells you the reasons why an AI doesn't like you, it also gives you specific reasons why certain trade options are red (via mouse-over). Going from there, it shouldn't be too difficult to find out what's going wrong.

Try to go for Open Borders first. Some AIs are very willing to open their borders, others are more reluctant to do that, and you may have to give them some presents. Also - most important - try to be of the same state religions as the civs you want to trade with.

With the same religion, open borders, and some presents, you should easily achieve at least +5 in relations. Trade some resources, which can give another powerful positive modifier over time.

 

[The Condor]

It is nearly impossible to be friends with everyone and have everyone be happy about it. High ranking AI's take you trading with their "worst enemy" which is almost always some person who is in last place and is the only friendly Ai very seriously. Also, Tokugawa (sp?) is very careful about giving out open borders (I only got it once of course when he is on some other continent eight billion miles away that is totally secluded and offers no value whatsoever. Also, most civs will NEVER give away their maps even if you have explored every last inch of their land. The only way to get it is to pry it from their cold, dead hands. The easiest way to get good relations with them is just spread your religion over to their capital and a few very important/ heavily populated cities (not crappy ones unless the religion spreads their itself [the religious shrine for any religion is great for spreading religions without doing squat]) and you will see soon enough a "we care for our brothers and sisters of the same faith" which can go as high as +5 if you spread your religion just right. The easiest map settings to do religious ventures are of course tiny-standard pangaeas. Also, this is kind of an exploit but when civs demand stuff from you that has the "lets negiotate" button you can hit that and then hit never mind to not suffer a -1 modifier for some completely stupid trade. Note: this only works for stuff with the "let's negiotate" option and not with the "tribute" or "we demand" stuff where no matter what unless you give it to them you get a negative modifier. Also, don't gift units because it really does nothing to improve your relations. You can honestly find something else to do since gifting only helps the enemy. That's all I can think of at this moment but I probably add some more later or not.

 

[Soryn Arkayn]

Just so you know, I'm not a n00b. I know that Civs will dislike you if you have a different religion or civics, and they won't trade recently researched techs.

My point was that there should be a way to improve relations despite these things. Like I said, I've tried gifting things to improve relations, but that rarely ever works. And matching another Civ's civics isn't the answer either, especially early in the game when I don't have the requisite techs to enable those civics.

I started a new game since my original post and this time I was on a large central continent (I chose a Continents map, but unfortunately it was a more like a Pangaea map with a few islands rather two or more continents, like I wanted) with 5 other Civs. I ended up trading with three (Russia, England, and China) but after my initial Alphabet-enabled tech trading binge, Russia and England snubbed me and I ended up trading heavily with China. The other two Civs -- Greece and Aztecs -- were pissed that I maintained my Deals with England so they refused to deal with me (fortunately they didn't have anything to offer either).

So it appears that you just need to take a shotgun approach to Civ relations -- you can't really do anything to effect relations, so you're better off establishing contact with half a dozen Civs and chances are one or two will deal with you.

Personally, I don't like this approach. It's cheap and unfair, especially if you're on a smaller map with only a few Civs, or you Civ is situated on an island with only one other Civ that refuses to deal with you. Because all Civs suffer if they don't play the tech trading game.

 

[The Condor]

Then build up a massive frickin army like I do and conquer all of them. Make them suffer for their lack of friendship. Also, try eighteen civ duel-sized pangaea with high sealevel for some fun. One civ is bound to trade with you if not *gasp* TWO!!! Also, in the worldbuilder there is a diplomacy mode (icon with people shaking hands) thing that uses a system of slides that shows how friendly civs are toward you initially. You can use it for a easy diplomacy win or to open up tech trades immediately. If you slide to 100 they will still be friends even if you nuke there lands and raze their cities. Also, you can slide it to -100 for civs against other civs for a war that will last for eons and involve almost all civs (it is great for one city challenges always war since it takes the focus of you for some time). Also, for one city challenges always war you can totally level the playing field by clicking on no tech trading in custom game settings because you are at war with everyone so how would you be trading and why would you want the AI's to trade with each other and get an advantage over you? This has been more words of wisdom from The Condor. Don't expect any more for at least fifteen minutes because I will not be here.