AI declared war to me over 20 grid spaces

[CIV4fansFengY]

Huge map, at the critical moment when I and AI are neck and neck, another bad relationship AI declared war to me over 20 grid spaces. Why does it sneak at me so far away? Does it not give priority to attacking its bad neighbors?

 

[s.bernbaum]

Huge map, at the critical moment when I and AI are neck and neck, another bad relationship AI declared war to me over 20 grid spaces. Why does it sneak at me so far away? Does it not give priority to attacking its bad neighbors?

Who to attack for an AI is affected by several factors, listed in no particular order:

what is the relative strength of the military
is someone else already at war with the potential target, if so what is the diplomatic relationship to both parties
what is the diplomatic relationship to the potential target

As to the diplomatic relationship, that is probably the most important. It can be influenced by religion, whether or not you agreed to demands and requests (such as declare war on X, stop trading with X, change to religion of requester, pay tribute, etc), proximaty of borders, and several hidden factors, including inherent relationship with a human player and inherent relationship between an AI and the one that the human is playing as.

Proximaty of borders, other than as part of the diplomatic relationship, has nothing to do with it. They don't care how far away you are if you otherwise qualify as a target. In my current game, also on a huge map, several of the AIs declared war on another one located on a differernt land mass only accessable to them with astronomy, when they did not have astronomy. Later on an AI (Sitting Bull) declared war on me even though two other empires lay between us. His knights, maces, and more primitive units got wiped out by my infantry and cannon. So, you see, they don't evaluate their potential target by distance or quality of military. I had a smaller military and he did not like me because I had refused all his requests to join his wars, stop trading with his opponents, and pay him tribute. Therefore, in his eyes, I was a targert for conquest. As a result he has gone from 20 cities to 2, although due to the distance it took me a while to get there.

 

[need my speed]

Proximaty of borders, other than as part of the diplomatic relationship, has nothing to do with it.

This is not true. A few relevant tags from Civ4LeaderHeadInfos.xml:

            <iMaxWarRand>50</iMaxWarRand>
            <iMaxWarNearbyPowerRatio>130</iMaxWarNearbyPowerRatio>
            <iMaxWarDistantPowerRatio>80</iMaxWarDistantPowerRatio>
            <iMaxWarMinAdjacentLandPercent>0</iMaxWarMinAdjacentLandPercent>
            <iLimitedWarRand>40</iLimitedWarRand>
            <iLimitedWarPowerRatio>130</iLimitedWarPowerRatio>
            <iDogpileWarRand>25</iDogpileWarRand>
            <iMakePeaceRand>80</iMakePeaceRand>
            <iDeclareWarTradeRand>40</iDeclareWarTradeRand>
            <iDemandRebukedSneakProb>60</iDemandRebukedSneakProb>
            <iDemandRebukedWarProb>10</iDemandRebukedWarProb>

All these tags influence the likelihood of war, and are only overridden by the threshold of diplomatic relationships at which the AI never declares war (i.e. most AIs won't declare war on you if you are Friendly). As you can see, there are tags about distance as well.

This might be useful: https://modiki.civfanatics.com/index.php?title=Civ4LeaderHeadInfos

 

[Jivilov]

It should be noted that unlike Civ3 in Civ4 BTS AIs are quite effective in amphibious operations. How many times have my coastal settlements been attacked with stacks of Trebs and Cuirassiers? Most unsettling when it happens.

 

[CIV4fansFengY]

Who to attack for an AI is affected by several factors, listed in no particular order:

what is the relative strength of the military
is someone else already at war with the potential target, if so what is the diplomatic relationship to both parties
what is the diplomatic relationship to the potential target

As to the diplomatic relationship, that is probably the most important. It can be influenced by religion, whether or not you agreed to demands and requests (such as declare war on X, stop trading with X, change to religion of requester, pay tribute, etc), proximaty of borders, and several hidden factors, including inherent relationship with a human player and inherent relationship between an AI and the one that the human is playing as.

Proximaty of borders, other than as part of the diplomatic relationship, has nothing to do with it. They don't care how far away you are if you otherwise qualify as a target. In my current game, also on a huge map, several of the AIs declared war on another one located on a differernt land mass only accessable to them with astronomy, when they did not have astronomy. Later on an AI (Sitting Bull) declared war on me even though two other empires lay between us. His knights, maces, and more primitive units got wiped out by my infantry and cannon. So, you see, they don't evaluate their potential target by distance or quality of military. I had a smaller military and he did not like me because I had refused all his requests to join his wars, stop trading with his opponents, and pay him tribute. Therefore, in his eyes, I was a targert for conquest. As a result he has gone from 20 cities to 2, although due to the distance it took me a while to get there.

Thanks for your explanation.I find that it seems too troublesome for human players to deal with the relationship with AI, because almost every AI will constantly put forward their requirements (as you mentioned: declare war on X, stop trading with X, change to religion of requester, pay tribute, and especially ask for technology. when I ask for it from AI, it usually fails to reach a certain threshold and refuses to give it. ) to humans during the game: agree, my interests will suffer a certain loss; refuse, damage the relationship. This is tantamount to a kind of diplomatic pressure on me at no cost, especially when I am at a disadvantage and I have not yet found an AI to sign the common defense treaty.
However, there is no such diplomatic extortion between AI and AI?

 

[CIV4fansFengY]

This is not true. A few relevant tags from Civ4LeaderHeadInfos.xml:

            <iMaxWarRand>50</iMaxWarRand>
            <iMaxWarNearbyPowerRatio>130</iMaxWarNearbyPowerRatio>
            <iMaxWarDistantPowerRatio>80</iMaxWarDistantPowerRatio>
            <iMaxWarMinAdjacentLandPercent>0</iMaxWarMinAdjacentLandPercent>
            <iLimitedWarRand>40</iLimitedWarRand>
            <iLimitedWarPowerRatio>130</iLimitedWarPowerRatio>
            <iDogpileWarRand>25</iDogpileWarRand>
            <iMakePeaceRand>80</iMakePeaceRand>
            <iDeclareWarTradeRand>40</iDeclareWarTradeRand>
            <iDemandRebukedSneakProb>60</iDemandRebukedSneakProb>
            <iDemandRebukedWarProb>10</iDemandRebukedWarProb>

All these tags influence the likelihood of war, and are only overridden by the threshold of diplomatic relationships at which the AI never declares war (i.e. most AIs won't declare war on you if you are Friendly). As you can see, there are tags about distance as well.

This might be useful: https://modiki.civfanatics.com/index.php?title=Civ4LeaderHeadInfos

Thanks for pointing the way!

 

[sampsa]

However, there is no such diplomatic extortion between AI and AI?

True - diplomacy is in no way symmetrical, but I think it is the human player who has a huge, "unfair" advantage in that department. Attitude towards other civs (whether AI or human) handcuffs the AI and this attitude is very easy to manipulate (religion, favorite civics, gifted tech/cities). No AI can start to plot war against any other civ they have a friendly status towards. Human players can do whatever they feel like doing.

 

[ArchGhost]

Indeed. The human can always DoW at Friendly!

 

[AspiringScholar]

Indeed. The human can always DoW at Friendly!

It would be cool if there was a overarching system of "trust" as there is in Europa Universalis, where your pleased and friendly DoWs as the player result in increased suspicion from everyone else (just as the player is towards the "declares at pleased" crowd, and Catherine especially), instead of just being the singular "You declared war on us!" between you and the target civ, and without regard to any existing relations.

 

[Fippy]

We have "you declared war on our friend!", but yep it's only -1 and prolly a too small penalty.
On deity things balance out surprisingly well, AI gets reduced cost on almost everything..and players are not restricted with diplo.
Maybe not an optimal solution, but in IV they got the difficulty part right - if you are willing to play on basically unfair diff. levels.

 

[CIV4fansFengY]

It would be cool if there was a overarching system of "trust" as there is in Europa Universalis,

I agree with you, because I also play Europa Universalis 4, lol

 

[CIV4fansFengY]

Maybe not an optimal solution, but in IV they got the difficulty part right - if you are willing to play on basically unfair diff. levels.

Yes, IV has so many game difficulty levels to choose from, which is very good.

 

[jnebbe]

Kind of random but it always cracks me up when someone asks a question here and all us S&T players flood in to geek out about our favorite strategy game

 

[sampsa]

People answering questions cracks you up? Life must be fun for you!

 

[CIV4fansFengY]

People answering questions cracks you up?

You mean the "lol" in my reply?Oh, in fact, in my understanding, it means "Hahaha", just smile or laugh normally.
I see. This word is only used for cracks sth up?

 

[need my speed]

You mean the "lol" in my reply?Oh, in fact, in my understanding, it means "Hahaha", just smile or laugh normally.
I see. This word is only used for cracks sth up?

No, read jnebbe's post above.

 

[CIV4fansFengY]

No, read jnebbe's post above.

In fact, I don't quite understand this... I mainly read posts through translation software.
Maybe it means that the section published by my post violates the relevant regulations of the forum? I'm a new comer.

 

[s.bernbaum]

In fact, I don't quite understand this... I mainly read posts through translation software.
Maybe it means that the section published by my post violates the relevant regulations of the forum? I'm a new comer.

You are fine. You have not violated anything. Sampsa was replying to Jnebbe not to you. They were both using slang expressions that your software may not recognize or translate properly.

 

[Gumbolt]

If you play with weird settings like aggressive AI and no vassals the Ai will deem AI with 1-2 or very few cities as easy pickings (Assuming not pleased or friendly). They might march across whole map to take them out. Especially if you disabled vassals. If the Ai is left with an island city they could stay at war for a long while as they won't accept peace if they are winning the war. At which point you might as well join their war for free diplomacy points. +1 for each 10 turns of shared war up to 2-3 points pending on the ai.