AI & Diplomacy Discussion

[Spheniscine]

Figure I'll start a new thread in the vein of those Mysticx did, to discuss AI and diplomacy.

One thing I feel is missing is options when the AI gets worried about troops near their borders. They're essentially forcing you to either declare war then and there (which you might not be committed to doing yet, and lets them get the first shot), or promise they're just "passing through"... I'm not sure whether that's a promise not to attack them (which you might not want to promise if you're, perhaps, not really wanting to attack, but might if you see any "bad behavior" like settling where you wanted to, attacking city states you're protecting, or going for spaceship victory), or to actually move the troops (which you may not want to do if they're primarily for defense). Breaking a promise is a negative global diplomacy modifier (even among those who dislike the petitioning civ), and there is no way to ask the AI a similar question. This is also more problematic if it happens when you promised another AI to simultaneously declare on the petitioning civ after 10 turns, since you can't get them to declare war with you as planned without lying.

Therefore in my opinion there should be a third button, perhaps "They are performing military exercises." - this should give an immediate huge negative modifier with the petitioning civ, which may even be enough to provoke war, but won't count as a global promise. (Similar to "We settle where we please", but perhaps more since it's basically a refusal to promise not to attack. I believe there is already a modifier we could use, something like "They asked you to move your troops and you refused!", which appears if you chose the "war" option.)

 

[mystikx21]

This sounds like an interface or AI fix that may be outside of the initial scope of the mod... but, it could be something that could be placed on the dll mod's to-do-list as something we could enable down the road. The diplomacy and AI use of it could some tweaks and options to make it more engaging.

I have less experience looking at diplomatic modifiers and effects in the mod/game though, so someone else could comment on the viability of any changes and whether we could do this already or not.

 

[Spheniscine]

This sounds like an interface or AI fix that may be outside of the initial scope of the mod... but, it could be something that could be placed on the dll mod's to-do-list as something we could enable down the road. The diplomacy and AI use of it could some tweaks and options to make it more engaging.

I have less experience looking at diplomatic modifiers and effects in the mod/game though, so someone else could comment on the viability of any changes and whether we could do this already or not.

I don't think it requires a DLL, since if I recall correctly the buttons in diplomacy screens are quite flexible (InfoAddict adds its own button to view it from the diplomacy screen for example.) It probably does require Lua editing though.

 

[ExpiredReign]

While the interface to provide that functionality is done with lua, like with InfoAddict, the problem is the actual functions that dictate the reactions of the AI to your military stance are something that is handled by the DLL, mostly. This is why CSD & CivIV Diplomacy are DLL mods, as most of what needs to changed to make diplomacy work better is handled inside it.

 

[Spheniscine]

While the interface to provide that functionality is done with lua, like with InfoAddict, the problem is the actual functions that dictate the reactions of the AI to your military stance are something that is handled by the DLL, mostly. This is why CSD & CivIV Diplomacy are DLL mods, as most of what needs to changed to make diplomacy work better is handled inside it.

We don't have to introduce any new modifiers though; as I said, there is already a suitable modifier that you get if you decided to declare war when that screen appears (which is a bit redundant, since... you already declared war). I confess I don't know the details though. And Communitas does already change the diplomatic modifier behaviors... like the fact AIs you have DoFed won't resent you for denying one-sided trade requests (or was that a BNW change? I forgot.)

And I think the reason CSD uses a DLL, is that without it the only way to have the AI use the diplomatic units properly was to make them Great Merchant variants, which interfered with stuff like the Patronage finisher (instead of gifting you great people they often just gave you a diplomatic unit instead, and usually not of the right era).

 

[ExpiredReign]

Hmm... I'm not following you. At any rate I believe changes like this should be handled further down the track. Let us get our feet with these current overhauls and we can come back to it.
You might want to ask in the CSD thread about that though, @Gazebo may know exactly what you are describing and perhaps we could do something sooner.