[NFP] AI disbanding its military

I used to bankrupt the AI with Diplomatic Favor. Even if they had 0 Gold and 0 GPT, the next turn they had like 300 GPT and some pocket cash: the AI is programmed to disband all its military units once it bankrupts, not just a portion of it*. But somehow, it doesn't change its behavior: it will neither go for some Trade in order to get some spare change nor stop training new military unit even if it just disbanded all of them...
I'm torn on this. I tend to sell my luxuries as much as possible, which could be draining their gold to bankruptcy, so it is plausible that I've sold my luxuries to them and they've over spent so now they're disbanding.

On the other hand...this (military strength suddenly dropping) is something I've only noticed in the last few weeks, whereas I've always sold my luxuries off. If anything, I'm less likely to sell them now since I've gotten better at keeping my treasury filled, so I get lazy about selling my furs for 10gpt because I'm getting 500-2,000gpt anyway. So, why now all of a sudden?

The explanation is plausible, but it doesn't explain why it's mostly been happening as of late. It's possible that they changed the AI somehow, and accidentally removed a check on AI trading that stopped them (or rather, reduced the likelihood) of them bankrupting themselves?

I've never intentionally bankrupted the AI (I'd rather actually fight them), but something is happening.
 
  • Like
Reactions: uhu
On the other hand...this (military strength suddenly dropping) is something I've only noticed in the last few weeks.

It was always there. It was almost even systematic once you started to play at the Information era without any input from the players: sooner or later, most of the AI will bankrupt themselves at one point. Too much military at the start, not prone to build Commercial Hub / Harbor, nor slots the policy cards that could helps them to mitigate the problem, and no other civilizations encountered yet to send them Trader for some cashes. Fortunately, they will bounce back.

If you start the game at an earlier era, it needs you to aim at bankrupt the AI on purpose to even witness this. It is very unlikely but not implausible to bankrupt an AI unknowingly by selling them your luxury resources. So I don't know why you are witnessing this suddenly. Are you playing game mode like Monopolies and Corporations? Or Zombie Defense? Maybe those are hurting the AI much more by not improving Luxury Resources and pumping more military making them more prone to bankrupt themselves? Or did you use a mod that makes trading with AI more confortable (so you just trade more with them at the best price, who knows!).
Or are the AI more aggressive with Spies and Fund Siphoning?
 
  • Like
Reactions: uhu
Current game I'm in a war with Gilgamesh (that he started). He basically went all in on invading me and failed to take down my walls and he lost all his units. I've started attacking him now and it seems his entire strategy is to send envoys to nearby city states and levy their troops. Of course I have held back on using my envoys until after he does, so the end result is (I'm fairly sure) he is just running projects to get gold, spending it on levying, then losing the levy the next turn.

AI levies a lot more than humans, so it could just be levy expiring and not being able to be renewed.
 
It was always there. It was almost even systematic once you started to play at the Information era without any input from the players: sooner or later, most of the AI will bankrupt themselves at one point. Too much military at the start, not prone to build Commercial Hub / Harbor, nor slots the policy cards that could helps them to mitigate the problem, and no other civilizations encountered yet to send them Trader for some cashes. Fortunately, they will bounce back.

If you start the game at an earlier era, it needs you to aim at bankrupt the AI on purpose to even witness this. It is very unlikely but not implausible to bankrupt an AI unknowingly by selling them your luxury resources. So I don't know why you are witnessing this suddenly. Are you playing game mode like Monopolies and Corporations? Or Zombie Defense? Maybe those are hurting the AI much more by not improving Luxury Resources and pumping more military making them more prone to bankrupt themselves? Or did you use a mod that makes trading with AI more confortable (so you just trade more with them at the best price, who knows!).
Or are the AI more aggressive with Spies and Fund Siphoning?
I've never not done an Ancient Era start, to my recollection. I've never used a mod. I generally do use M&C, so maybe that, although it's not every game it happens (it's almost always on) but it when it does happen, it's often multiple AI. I only ever did the Zombie mode once and didn't like it so I've never played it again.
Current game I'm in a war with Gilgamesh (that he started). He basically went all in on invading me and failed to take down my walls and he lost all his units. I've started attacking him now and it seems his entire strategy is to send envoys to nearby city states and levy their troops. Of course I have held back on using my envoys until after he does, so the end result is (I'm fairly sure) he is just running projects to get gold, spending it on levying, then losing the levy the next turn.

AI levies a lot more than humans, so it could just be levy expiring and not being able to be renewed.
This reminds me of a change in AI behaviour. It used to be relatively rare for me to fight levied units, whereas now it seems like every war involves them.

Now, thus might not be down to the AI itself changing. With the release of the Huge Earth TSL map, I've been playing huge a lot more *I always used to play Standard). One thing I've noticed is that CSs , especially in Europe, are significantly denser. Despite Europe doubling in size (to my estimation, possibly it trebles), there are a lot more CSs - usually there aren't any on Standard, but I my Huge map fromnmy last.game had Granads, Brussels and Venice. Other areas aren't quite so drastic, but I get the feel that there are more CSs for the same number of hexes, or at least settable hexes, than in Standard. As a result, a civ is more likely to be sharing a border with a CS.

This might make them more likely to levy units when attacked. Levying units is pretty expensive (several hundred gold for thirty turns, generally), which would put a strain on their economy. I mean, I looked at their gold levels yesterday at the end of my last game, and it looked pretty low throughout. A sudden cost of a few hundred could easily wreck their economy.

So, theory: They're being attacked and because they are close to a CS, they levy their troops because if it saves them, it is worth losing that gold. However, this puts them I the red and, as per the explanation earlier, this causes them to disband their own armies because the algorithm tells them to keep disbanding until their account is positive, which never happens. All they have left are the levied troops. 29 turns later, the levy runs out and voilà, no military strength left. Their economy has recovered though, so they start building units again, and they get their old military strength back. Which is what we observe.

How we can test that, I don't know. We wouldn't see the sudden drop to zero until after the levied troops revert. Perhaps when we notice the drop, we check their empire for CS units, indicating that they had recently returned from being levied and are now back under the control of the CS? The post game graphs don't show military strength if I remember correctly.

But that would explain the mechanic, and why it's only started recently, at least for me.
 
You don't pay maintenance on levied units and it does not matter if your gold goes to 0 as long as you have positive income.
The same applies to the AI. There's no reason why levying units would bankrupt them.
If they are in a war, and they are suzerain, and they have enough gold, and the city state is close -> they will levy.
 
Do you have a save available which allows reproduing this? Without it very likely no one will be able to find out what is going on - and the chance for an offficial fix is zero then.


upload_2021-5-18_11-36-20.png



:confused::confused:
 

Attachments

  • AutoSave_0437.Civ6Save
    3.4 MB · Views: 44
You don't pay maintenance on levied units and it does not matter if your gold goes to 0 as long as you have positive income.
The same applies to the AI.
True, although what if they're building units due to the war? That could put their GPT to negative, combined with the levies wiping out their reserved, that could bankrupt them. That would also explain why it doesn't occur every game but it happens a lot in individual games.
 

Can't load your save because of a missing mod. Your screenhsot shows that most of the AIs already have close to no military; is the save just reflecting that or will ending the turn cause e.g. Gilgamesh or Genghis to disband what they have? Saves are always useful for devs, but the ones right before the bug/unwanted behaviour occurs are most useful.
 
First impression after turning barbarians just flat off.

The game is a lot harder. The game is back to being about fighting the AI civs, not fighting the barbarians with the AIs there for decoration.
 
First impression after turning barbarians just flat off.

The game is a lot harder. The game is back to being about fighting the AI civs, not fighting the barbarians with the AIs there for decoration.

Gonna have to try that my next game
 
It’s harder yes, but offers a good window to freely scout without fear of barbs. Makes for an interesting game!
 
I have found another source of no-unit (or very little unit) AIs.

The following screen shot is from a marathon game, 4 civs on an Inland Lake map (forget the name - the one that has a LOT of land for its map size), Emperor, barbarian feature activated.

Spoiler :



upload_2021-5-22_13-9-40.png





Note that we are in 30 AD and two civs are almost without military.

What happened is that Egypt used to have over 200 military strength. They attacked Poland, who had no military. Took out a few Polish units, but lost pretty much their whole military. Where did the Polish military go??? Lost it in a previous attack on India. India did not attack anyone, so their AI military is the largest by far.

What seems to have happened is that Egypt attacked a Polish city that had no Polish units, with lots of barbarian units swarming around. Once the Egyptian units came, the barbarian units attacked the Egyptian units, Egypt and the barbarians annihilated each other, Poland said thank you and they declared peace.

Why do I think it happened this way? Earlier in another game I attacked a civ with no military. The barbarians that were pillaging and attacking the city came after me instead as I tried to approach the city. And if you actually TAKE a city, the barbarians plus the rebellion units combined will overwhelm many an attacker.

I cannot guarantee that this is how it happened. What I DID notice is that wars usually ended up with a large military AI attacking a small military AI followed by the large military AI having no military.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PiR
In my latest game this happens all across the board, few AI have more than 200 military power. 11 civs, tiny highland, immortal, renaissance start, real strategy mod. Is this a mod issue?
 
Reviving an old thread to add that I have been troubleshooting this all weekend. I tested GS without any mods, no barbarians or tribal village, and starting in Modern era at online speed with prince difficulty. All leaders begin with 217 gold and 355 military, but by turn 5 some of them will have lost all gold and military.
Starting in Modern era is definitely the worst case scenario (compared to starting in the other eras), but the problem remains consistent: AI founds cities and receives units, but quickly loses gold and disbands those units (often while simultaneously producing more units).
 
Last edited:
Reviving an old thread to add that I have been troubleshooting this all weekend. I tested GS without any mods, no barbarians or tribal village, and starting in Modern era at online speed with prince difficulty. All leaders begin with 217 gold and 355 military, but by turn 5 some of them will have lost all gold and military.
Starting in Modern era is definitely the worst case scenario (compared to starting in the other eras), but the problem remains consistent: AI founds cities and receives units, but quickly loses gold and disbands those units (often while simultaneously producing more units).

I wonder if there's an element of ocean/sea access as well on the map script as well.

I recently played a Highlands map game as Ethiopia with very little water other than a few small inland seas.

I was running deficits for most of the course of the game unless I had max revenue generating policy cards in place despite only having a usual standing army.

I found myself having to specifically route my trade routes across those inland seas just so they would produce any gold revenue at all.

It was more reminiscent of the MP meta where trade route revenue isn't a given that can be exploited.
 
Could this be connected to the bug where the AI completely ignores commercial hubs, and other districts, for campuses?
 
Yes, it's that bug. The AI goes crazy for science, so it doesn't build CHs and other financial sources. The units get crazy expensive compared to their income so they go bankrupt, disband their army to try and recover their finances, but never rebuild, they end up stagnant.

I'm not sure trade routes have much to do with it, to be honest. The AI was given too much focus on science (150 instead of 15, I believe), so it just collapses.
 
Top Bottom