AI DOES cheat, big time!

[Nig the Bastard]

Just deleted a game I was playing at Warlord (I know, wimp level, but I get totally hammered at Noble), anyway, I have a city on a hill defended with 2 Axemen, 3 archers and a spearman with walls. Surrounding the city is forest and jungle (built the city there because there were gems and iron near by). The Incans come along and declare wat straight off on first contact. Anyway they have 6 catapults and one swordsman. My city is taken and razed. How? Anyway, I begin to build my armies and for the hell of it I ask him for peace and see that he had Construction, Currency, Optics, Mysticism and Liberalism, all this and the year was 1150. I thought I was doing well. Anyway, Im building my armies and surprise surprise Huayna tells me to basically stick my call for a cease fire and attacks another city. This is taken with a single swordsman after first destroying 3 archers, 2 spearman and an axeman that was sentried one square from my city. So, this single swordsman gets through 6 units all with either guerilla I shock and woodsman I and then takes my city after 3 turns without a break.
Finally, I have 3 galleys waiting to take some units to Huayna and he has sent one single galley. guess what, that too destroys all 3 of mine one each turn.

 

[Marmoset]

Just out of curiosity, did his units have a lot of promotions?

I used to undervalue the importance of promotions because I was winning easily below noble. At noble my naval convoys were getting hammered if there was a confrontation, and it was at least in part because my enemies had 1-2 strength promotions on their ships and I had none. Thus I discovered the usefulness of the drydock! (Although it sounds like drydocks won't help in this case because of where you are in the game).

The same idea could apply to the ground units as well.

 

[Meffy]

I once lost at poker all night despite getting some really good hands. (Actually I lost most of the hands, not all, but I remember the bad part preferentially.) Must be the cards were cheating, don't you suppose?

 

[Nig the Bastard]

Marmoset, most of the catapults had Combat 1 but the swordsman, no, nothing. Meffy, I see what you are saying but hpw can a single swordsman take out so many units without healing?

 

[Meffy]

Through luck. It happens -- the NRG does these things, and it'll make you mad as all get out. Sure does rile me up! :-D But that's how randomness is. It'll mess you up good, but sometimes you'll get a run of good luck that leaves you cackling with glee. The short run can go all one way or all the other, but in the long run everything always evens out.

Dice can be mean little so-and-sos.

 

[Rex Tyrannus]

I always catch myself saying things like "how on earth did that one Kasheek just take out two Cho Ku No each with drill 1 and 2?" But I seldom think it's cheating when my hurt axeman just beat a fortified longbowman. It happens a lot. In both directions. It just aggrevates when it's not in your favor.

 

[warpus]

I have a city on a hill defended with 2 Axemen, 3 archers and a spearman with walls. Surrounding the city is forest and jungle (built the city there because there were gems and iron near by). The Incans come along and declare wat straight off on first contact. Anyway they have 6 catapults and one swordsman. My city is taken and razed. How?

Collateral damage.

 

[Willem]

Collateral damage.

Correct, 6 Catapults will do alot of damage to all the units on the tile. It wouldn't take much after that for the Swordsman to wipe them out.

 

[Meffy]

True, that can be a killer. Keeps me from stacking all my units together.

 

[Salamandre]

Sometimes it seems that AI is cheating on moves but isnt the case. AI just know to deal better with different promotions on its units and will use THAT unit which has double movement rate on forest/hills while you already forgot you have also such a unit.

I was also mad to see AI take me towns when previous turn it wasnt around. After a while I learned that AI uses in an optimal way the units who started with +movement promotions; while for you could be very tedious to find along your hundred units which one moves more. AI is a computer after all, and we have only a brain

 

[linjon1]

"This is taken with a single swordsman after first destroying 3 archers, 2 spearman and an axeman that was sentried one square from my city"

this would take 6 turns with 1 swordsman.
why didn't you attack back?

 

[PieceOfMind]

Nig the Bastard,

I hardly consider this as evidence that the AI cheats. Good luck is NOT the same as cheating. It would be interesting to see the save game after all these battle losses so we could indeed see how many battles you lost unluckily - the combat log will list all battle results. But oh, did you happen to delete the file so there's no shred of evidence left? You really shouldn't jump to conclusions (your title suggests) that you can't prove or even support.

 

[Veteranewbie]

I recog computer has a lot of fluke though
I have lots of lost from 7X% and 8X% win ratio battle

 

[aaronflavor]

I don't understand. You need to post more details.

"This is taken with a single swordsman after first destroying 3 archers, 2 spearman and an axeman that was sentried one square from my city."

Why weren't they in the city? In the city they will get a very significant defense bonus. On the other hand, the swordsmen won't get his bonus if you aren't in the city--but this isn't necessary a good reason to leave.

Even so, it would take a swordsmen six turns to kill those six units. Even if he had exceptional luck, he still should have been badly hurt. A swordsmen, even if not badly hurt, has very little chance against an axemen--particularly if that axemen has been fortified for five turns.

I suspect you're just unfamiliar with game mechanics. Civ4 is very complicated, perhaps unnecessarily so. However, so far I have never seen flat out cheating by the AI. That is, I've never seen the AI be able to do something different from what I could do that wasn't just scaling a rule in some manner. In particular, I don't think difficulty level has any particular effect on human versus AI combat, but I could be wrong.

 

[Rast]

Collateral damage.

Yep. Wait till you have a stack of lv. 4-6 tanks get chewed up by cannons and calvary.

On the flipside, understanding collateral damage is the key to defeating the SoDs the AI will throw at you on the higher difficulties without taking heavy losses.

 

[PieceOfMind]

Yep. Wait till you have a stack of lv. 4-6 tanks get chewed up by cannons and calvary.

On the flipside, understanding collateral damage is the key to defeating the SoDs the AI will throw at you on the higher difficulties without taking heavy losses.

Indeed, when I didn't know the game well, I think it was my second game, I was attacking Mansa Musa's capital. I must have lost about 12 swordsmen/axes against about 3 skirmishers. I just could not understand how he survived. Now though, I realise that at the time, the city had probably 60%+ defense due to culture, it was on a hill, and the skirmishers were well fortified. My attack was pretty useless really.

 

[Meffy]

What you do is this: If (when, rather) the AI stomps all over you, watch how it's doing it. Then do the same thing to it.

 

[*Nosferatu*]

Oh, but the AI does cheat on higher levels though

 

[Karnor]

Catapults aren't that bad attacking a city with early unit defenders. Catapults have strength 5 after all. The first couple of cats will probably die, but the defenders are going to be down to about 2/3 health or so. And a strength 5 cat vs a strength 2 archer is likely to be successful, even with hill and city defense bonuses. 6 cats + a swordsman seems like more than enough to get into the city.

 

[kingjoshi]

Oh, but the AI does cheat on higher levels though

It's not cheating if you know the bonuses they get