AI Forward Settling

[Stalker0]

This may come off as more of a rant than a productive post, as I don't have a good idea on what to do to fix this....or even if it really should be fixed.

I have a real pet peeve right now when AIs forward settle me early. Its not the forward settle itself, that's just fair play....its that the AIs innate bonuses make it nigh impossible to counter unless your already on the war path yourself.

• AI satellites get walls up in record time, meaning that any "rush" stalls out.
• High difficulty AIs will have 2-3x your army at this point in the game and with better XP. That is fine in the later game when the human has the tools to deal with it, but this early....there really isn't one. The human can only get in a pillage or two or plink at the army, but the idea of actually getting to the cities is just not in the cards.
• The AI economic engine allows it to continue to expand and produce infrastructure while countering your army. Humans have to sacrifice a number of things to engage in an early war that will actually make ground.

So it just seems like time and time again, when I get forward settled I have to accept it, and wait till medieval at the earliest when I might be able to make a move. So that's the thing....it is counterable....its not an "unbeatable strategy"....it just annoys me so damn much that they can just plop cities wherever they like and I have to just take it for two eras. Maybe I just wish the AI didn't get SO many production bonuses that early in teh game.

So that's my rant....er productive outline for debate

 

[Kim Dong Un]

This may come off as more of a rant than a productive post, as I don't have a good idea on what to do to fix this....or even if it really should be fixed.

I have a real pet peeve right now when AIs forward settle me early. Its not the forward settle itself, that's just fair play....its that the AIs innate bonuses make it nigh impossible to counter unless your already on the war path yourself.

• AI satellites get walls up in record time, meaning that any "rush" stalls out.
• High difficulty AIs will have 2-3x your army at this point in the game and with better XP. That is fine in the later game when the human has the tools to deal with it, but this early....there really isn't one. The human can only get in a pillage or two or plink at the army, but the idea of actually getting to the cities is just not in the cards.
• The AI economic engine allows it to continue to expand and produce infrastructure while countering your army. Humans have to sacrifice a number of things to engage in an early war that will actually make ground.

So it just seems like time and time again, when I get forward settled I have to accept it, and wait till medieval at the earliest when I might be able to make a move. So that's the thing....it is counterable....its not an "unbeatable strategy"....it just annoys me so damn much that they can just plop cities wherever they like and I have to just take it for two eras. Maybe I just wish the AI didn't get SO many production bonuses that early in teh game.

So that's my rant....er productive outline for debate

The tech leads that the average AI accumulates after the initial expansion phase (50-100+ turns) can also be pretty suspect -- keep in mind, I usually only play a modified King difficulty, so I can imagine things getting quite frustrating on Immortal+, regardless of the yields involved. In general, I've found the AI does seem to be scooping up open (luxless) land at a solid rate, where as in the past you'd have completed games sometimes with potential cities still available. I've also had a couple occasions now where I've razed a city with aspirations of resettling, only to have one of my buds come in to say "yoink"! I've learned my lesson to not be tardy while having Settler/Pioneer on immediate stand-by, if ever attempting in the future.

I'm hoping @Milae can update his difficulty mod for compatibility sake (maybe it's already fine, idk...), because despite being designed to technically be 'harder', I found it did a good job of making things feel more even throughout the first 100-150 turns of a standard game.

 

[CrazyG]

I often count 3 tiles away from cities, you can use that to block their settlers sometimes.

 

[LifeOfBrian]

I understand your frustration, Stalker. I've learnt to adapt somewhat by using my pathfinder and warrior to declare an early war against the AI moving a settler towards my cities. That's usually enough for the AI to send the settler towards another direction, giving me time to settle that location myself. Of course that doesn't work as well against the likes of Songhai, Sweden,..., but starting against those civs is a whole nother can of worms where you'll end up in war sooner or later, so you might as well start against their forwardly settled city.

 

[DeAnno]

I often count 3 tiles away from cities, you can use that to block their settlers sometimes.

To expand on this, there are a number of things you can do to fight obnoxious AI settling.

1) Ask them not to. Some people aren't in the habit of using the "Don't settle near me" diplomatic message, but the AI will often listen to it if it likes you, or if you have a good army (note you only need one of these for it to have a decent chance.) One thing I especially like to do is if the AI asks me not to settle near them, and I feel forced to agree, I will immediately respond next turn asking the AI not to settle near me. This gives initiative on claiming the border zone in 50 turns if the AI agrees, and if the AI doesn't you can maybe guess how this is gonna end anyway.

2) Spacing. You want to settle your cities such that the sum of their 3 tile radius and the already existent city 3 tile radii leave no spaces to settle on your border. City States can be especially useful to sculpt buffer areas, and using water and mountains as additional blockers to fill holes helps too. Be careful as the spacing rule does not apply to cities on separated landmasses, even islands separated by only coast.

3) Tile buys. One thing I've learned playing Deity is that yes, you really did want to buy that tile. One of the most important functions of an early couple tile buys can be to buy out to the edge of your radius, since your border's edge also prevents settling along it, effectively giving you a "4th" hex of radius. Later on you'll also want to tile buy aggressively to prevent the AI owning land which would make a devastating Citadel, aspiring to a nice straight border helps there.

4) Military Blocking. Even if your army is small, if it's enough to at least hold off the AI in one war it can help to take a couple units and put them in strategic rough terrain passes that the AI settler must cross. In this case the settler must either abandon its escort and park itself under your unit, go around a longer way, or give up entirely on advancing. If the settler does choose to dare you to eat it, well, the AI knew what it was getting into, especially if you told it not to settle near you already. At worst this tactic will buy you some turns, and at best the AI may become frustrated and either dance its settler or retreat entirely. Be very careful of speed 3 progress settlers while doing this though.

5) Intelligence. Most of these strategies have costs, costs you rarely want to pay up front. One way to know when to pay these is to have a unit in the area you fear being settled to watch the edge of the space, or even better a unit watching the AI's lands for a settler. This has its costs too but sometimes it can be convenient to at least have your pathfinder take a look. If that settler is exposed in the AI lands and looking feisty maybe just grab it preemptively and save yourself the problem. Once again you don't need enough army to win a war, just enough to hold the AI off.

 

[CrazyG]

Another interesting note is if you declare war on an AI with a settler in line of sight, they will often plant the settler down that turn (probably a risk-avoiding strategy). So this can cause them to put the settler a little less far forward.

A related note is if you do get a city near an AI city, you can buy tile near their city no problem, but buying a second causes a massive negative diplo modifier. I often just give up a couple nice resources to stay friendly (at least for a while)

 

[azum4roll]

In my last game (first time Emperor), Babylon settled 5 tiles from my border city, regardless of me buying every tile around it so it couldn't expand towards me at all. Still, we stayed friendly till the last turns when he finally broke our DoF due to ideological difference (more like I was about to win the next turn), so I'd say either my military was intimidating enough, or AI really values lasting friendships now.

I think blocking AI settler with military is an exploit, since the AI won't do this against you. For the same reason I won't ask the AI to not settle near me until they do, to mirror what the AI is capable of.

 

[tommytoxen]

god i hate this. thankfully i don't experience it too much since i play on huge maps. and is also one of the main reasons i rush authority branch for that free settler while my city is free to produce archers instead of a settler. but now and again i'll start a game where another civ thinks it's a fantastic idea to park his new city near my capital.
i believe i read somewhere one of the reasons they do it is so they have a city within caravan range of you so they can open a trade route. if true wouldn't increasing the starting range of caravans make them satisfied settling further away?

 

[andersw]

I play low seas and reload if nearby capital is too close.
While I see forward settle as part of the game, forward settle on capital feels so cheesy.