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AI nutjobs spoil this game

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by FLUKE, Jan 17, 2008.

  1. FLUKE

    FLUKE Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 22, 2007
    Messages:
    50
    Location:
    Wales
    You know who I'm on about, Monty, Shaka, Isabella just to name a few.

    I'm trying to master the finer parts of the game on Noble, but as soon as you have the audacity to found and adopt a new religion they start declaring on you for the entire duration of the game.

    I admit I hate the war mechanics of the game but I like building and exploring, I dont ignore my armies but they are not what I concentrate on and I really dislike being coerced into building a huge army just to stop the nutjobs declaring.

    The last game was nothing but that damn declare trumpet, and I physically slumped in my chair everytime I heared it, in fact it makes me want to tear the damn game from my PC and burn the CD's so I cant re-install.

    The game can be a lot of fun but the war mongering AI's spoil what should be a pleasant way to kill a few hours - I dont mind the odd war but the micromanagement stinks - particularly the games warning system which is totally inadequate for a wargame - this is a wargame isnt it? It sure feels like it.:mad:
     
  2. FLUKE

    FLUKE Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 22, 2007
    Messages:
    50
    Location:
    Wales
    And so the status of this particular game is that the board leader strolls away with an easy win while me and the nutjobs are so busy fighting we cant build up a decent empire, none of us will win, its crazy.
     
  3. reverend oats

    reverend oats King

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2007
    Messages:
    641
    Location:
    Uberwald
    Well, many people (myself included) like the unpredictability of a "nutjob" in the game. They spice things up and make you reconsider your strategies. Remember they also can seriously mess with the other AIs by declaring war on them. But if you really don't like them, go into a custom game and pick a large map with fewer, peaceful opponents, such as Ghandi, Mansa Musa and Lincoln.
     
  4. JujuLautre

    JujuLautre Deity

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2007
    Messages:
    3,112
    Location:
    Kansai, Japan
    Solutions:
    - attack them before they attack you
    - pick your opponents
    - play an "always peace" game
    - use diplomacy

    My preference is obv for the last solution :)
     
  5. FLUKE

    FLUKE Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 22, 2007
    Messages:
    50
    Location:
    Wales
    ATM I've got Monty, Shaka, Alexander and Mehmed all declared on me, spicy enough?
     
  6. Julian Delphiki

    Julian Delphiki Anton's key

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2006
    Messages:
    2,738
    Location:
    Helsinki, Funland
    Warmongering & dogpiling is perfectly normal with those leaders. How's the power graph? Was it AP declaration?
     
  7. eewallace

    eewallace King

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2005
    Messages:
    797
    Location:
    USA
    Well, if you really want a nice peaceful game for exploring and building, simply make a custom game and choose your opponents. Of course, that is no guarantee you won't be going to war, but you can at least avoid the AI leaders you hate the most.

    (I did this after the third time I landed next to Saladin, who for some reason always hates me, no matter what civ I'm playing...)
     
  8. DragonHawk

    DragonHawk Bored

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2006
    Messages:
    283
    Location:
    Earth (maybe)
    Fluke, in next game try this:
    - Always create military units so you are not behind in powergraph (at least middle of the pack) --> This will discourage AIs from attacking
    - Adopt the religion of one of the nutjob and make nice with them
    - Make sure the other nutjobs each have different religion (optional)
    - Let the nutjobs fight each other while you do whatever you do

    Other than the above, try selecting opponets or check "always peace" game option
     
  9. The Keeper

    The Keeper Warlord

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2006
    Messages:
    196
    Location:
    Jackson TN
    I had a game similar to that. I was playing a Terra map and the RNG gave me all the nutjobs in a single game. I lost.
     
  10. BalbanesBeoulve

    BalbanesBeoulve Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2008
    Messages:
    1,060
    You need to learn diplomacy. NEVER convert to a religion you found. There's just no reason to. Adopt the most popular religion, and just spread your own for the shrine income. There's no need to convert to it yourself.

    The negative diplomatic hit for having a different religion is too big with most leaders. Instead wait until you're boxed in, and then convert to what your neighbors are. Even Montezuma, Genghis, and Shaka will not attack you if you're friendly with them. And just being pleased decreases the chances they'll attack you by a lot. They'll make a ton of ridiculous demands, but give in to them, as its better than seeing a stack of 50 classical era units at your door. (remember you can cancel resource demands as soon as the 10 turn peace treaty is over). Join their side in a war, even if you don't actually do any real fighting, and you'll be friendly in no time. Most warmongers will love you if you help them, and their "our mutual military struggle" diplomacy modifiers increase quickly.

    Once you get pleased or friendly with some people try to get them to declare war on someone else. Most aggressive civs can't tech well, so it should be easy to bribe them with techs to attack someone else, just don't give them any military techs, stick to peaceful stuff like education.
     
  11. raketooy

    raketooy professional Coke drinker

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2005
    Messages:
    995
    Location:
    Helsinki
    I play on noble and always keep a big army if I encounter them. If they are crazy enough to attack they will get owned quite soon and usually they don't even attack.
     
  12. Morgrad

    Morgrad Attack Rodent

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2007
    Messages:
    367
    Well, the game is about mankind - and if you have nice stuff and are too weak to hold onto it, people will be more than willing to kill you and take it.

    C'est la vie.
     
  13. JustinianVII

    JustinianVII Prince

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2007
    Messages:
    507
    Location:
    Nebraska
    The insane warmongers and religious zealots of the game liven things up, force you to adapt and think on your feet. It also tests your capability to balance--can you maintain a strong, cohesive defense against aggressive invasions while building a shiny empire that can keep up with the rest of the world?

    Plus, few things are more satisfying than crushing their stacks and then burning their empire to the ground. :devil:
     
  14. Milly

    Milly Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2008
    Messages:
    182
    If it's early enough in the game, make sure to build walls and castles, and create some (3-4) units with the City Garrison promotion.
     
  15. Defiant47

    Defiant47 Peace Sentinel

    Joined:
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    5,602
    Location:
    Canada
    You need to become, or temporarily adopt a little bit of racism. Isabella? All Spanish people should burn and die! So I'm going to build some axemen and quickly kill them all! Alternatively adopt personal vendettas. Shaka? I hate you. I'm going to put you out of your misery early and quick. Of course, choose your wars with closest of neighbours, but don't forget to eventually come back and kill all the people you hate. If you work it out nicely, you should be able to be spending half the game building and have the game warmongering (or building war units).

    I enjoy choosing random AI personalities so I don't always know that such-and-such will always try to be a warmonger. (and various leader stereotypes aren't upheld forever)

    Oh, and an important thing: turn them against each other!! If you don't pay Shaka a few hundred gold and a tech or two to declare war on Montezuma, he'll declare war on you! And then the other leaders have modifiers that make them want to attack you if you've been attacked. Keep them busy in wars against each other, and you should be relatively fine.
     
  16. FLUKE

    FLUKE Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 22, 2007
    Messages:
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    Location:
    Wales
    its not that I dont know how to build a decent army, if I want I could build a civ that can wipe the floor with other civs, but its just not how I like to play due to the mechanics of war in this game.

    Its not hard to build a town near some hills and iron, get a barracks/stable, forge and spam units. Eventually get the Heroic Epic there and your pretty safe, militarily.

    Its the way the AI dogpiles you for no real reason other than it has a few stupidly programmed AI civs, the times I have been declared on even though I am friendly (Shaka particularly) is ridiculous, just becuase another civ has declared on me and it thinks I am an easy target due my attention on that civ.

    I dont expect to win everytime, not even half the time, I dont mind coming last as long as I enjoyed building my civ - but when the game decides to dogpile you every 10 turns it becomes very boring, very quickly.
     
  17. FLUKE

    FLUKE Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Wales
    and another thing :D

    doesn't it make you laugh when a civ starts razing improvements that it built itself when boundarys change but it happens to be at war with you. I suppose you could make a case for it as it stops you from utilising it but to see it destroy its own mature towns is a bit sad.
     
  18. Iranon

    Iranon Deity Whipping Boy

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2007
    Messages:
    3,214
    Location:
    Germany
    Well, the practice has been alive and well in real life for milennia and is usually referred to as 'scorched earth'...
    I like to pillage the hell out of opponents whose cities I won't be able to take for a while. If battered cities with eroded cultural defenses weren't the death traps they are, I would do the same to improvments I built myself.


    The AIs don't only dogpile on you, they dogpile on everyone who appears weak. I like the concerns this creates when playing as a peaceful builder (how much of a standing army do I need to avoid having to build even more in a war I don't want).

    If you want to avoid this, you can manually assign only peaceful leaders to the AI or play with always peace on. Maybe an opposite of 'Aggressive AI' should be available, to let them emphasise research and infrastructure over military without making the game easier?
     
  19. Ceritoglu

    Ceritoglu Janissary

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2006
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    Location:
    London
    If you end up next to Isabella the best thing you can do is to simply adopt her religion, be nice to her for the early game before attacking her & seizing her lucrative shrine-city once it's matured into enough of a cash cow. Not only does this set you up quite nicely once her shrine-city is rehabilitated, but it also means that you have a loyal ally you can sic on anyone during the early game.

    To be honest, if you want to be an archetypal peaceful builder then I'd advise adopting the religion that will secure you the most regional security in order to avoid such problems. Founding and propagating a religion just isn't worth the hassle if it means you're in a bitter rivalry with someone you just can't be bothered to actually fight for supremacy.

    As for being annoyed with the AI's aggression, there are many things you can do to defuse that before the game even starts. Furthermore the game does allow you the possibility of handling that via diplomacy. If 4 civs are ganging up on you it isn't because the game is bad, it's because you haven't maneouvred yourself into a sufficiently safe position.
     
  20. Gooblah

    Gooblah Heh...

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2007
    Messages:
    4,282
    To solve this problem:

    SPECIALIZE, SPECIALIZE, SPECIALIZE :)

    Have specific military, production, commerce, and research cities. Your military cities should be constantly building units, if not to attack, then to protect the weaker frontier cities. Hordes of Workers should be building improvements and roads to help transport troops around your Empire quickly and efficiently.

    Also:

    DIPLOMACY ;)

    If you found a religion with a missionary, use the missionary in a city of a non-committed AI, while you skip an SR. Only change to a religion you founded if your neighbors are weak OR of that religion. Thus...

    Let's say you founded Confucianism. Shaka, Isabella, and Monty are all in the Hindu bloc. Mansa Musa is close to the other AIs, but far from you. Grab a ship, move the missionary to Timbuktu, and convert him to Confucianism. Bribe the AIs into attacking Mansa, while you build up a military. Then declare war on them and capture some cities.
     

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